Thank you.
It makes sense now.
Controversies between fans based on misunderstandings
- Thread starter alpha_leonis
- Start date
It makes sense now.I tried to rationalize this in a novel by suggesting that, entering the solar system from the outside, and counting backwards from the outer edge of the solar system, one could easily assume that Alpha Ceti V was Alpha Ceti VI if you had absolutely no reason to suspect that an entire planet had gone missing. Especially since, in real life, solar systems are huge and the planets aren't neatly lined up in a row the way they are in textbooks.
(Granted, this assumes that nobody used any long-range scanners to count the number of planets in the solar system, but why would they? Planets don't routinely disappear.)
As for nobody noticing that a planet exploded . . . well, space is big and this system was supposed to be way off the beaten track, which is why they were thinking of testing the super-secret Genesis Device there in the first place. It was a remote, largely unexplored system that nobody had visited for decades, so the planet's explosion went unnoticed.
It's not like Vulcan blew up or something.
I recall reading another suggestion -- maybe in a book (was it yours, Greg?) that originally, Ceti Alpha VI had been "landmarked" as the first planet inside of the system's asteroid belt. When VI exploded, it simply added to the asteroid collection, therefore the Reliant folks could easily misunderstand the "next planet in" mapping suggestion. Especially if another effect had been to add to the ellipticity (is that a word?) of V's orbit. Reliant had the misfortune of catching V when it was (a.) at the farthest end (relative to the star) of its newly arranged orbit, and therefore (b.) its closest point to the newly rearranged asteroid belt.
I tried to rationalize this in a novel by suggesting that, entering the solar system from the outside, and counting backwards from the outer edge of the solar system, one could easily assume that Alpha Ceti V was Alpha Ceti VI if you had absolutely no reason to suspect that an entire planet had gone missing. Especially since, in real life, solar systems are huge and the planets aren't neatly lined up in a row the way they are in textbooks.
(Granted, this assumes that nobody used any long-range scanners to count the number of planets in the solar system, but why would they? Planets don't routinely disappear.)
As for nobody noticing that a planet exploded . . . well, space is big and this system was supposed to be way off the beaten track, which is why they were thinking of testing the super-secret Genesis Device there in the first place. It was a remote, largely unexplored system that nobody had visited for decades, so the planet's explosion went unnoticed.
It's not like Vulcan blew up or something.
I recall reading another suggestion -- maybe in a book (was it yours, Greg?) that originally, Ceti Alpha VI had been "landmarked" as the first planet inside of the system's asteroid belt. When VI exploded, it simply added to the asteroid collection, therefore the Reliant folks could easily misunderstand the "next planet in" mapping suggestion. Especially if another effect had been to add to the ellipticity (is that a word?) of V's orbit. Reliant had the misfortune of catching V when it was (a.) at the farthest end (relative to the star) of its newly arranged orbit, and therefore (b.) its closest point to the newly rearranged asteroid belt.
Honestly, I can't remember. Scary to realize I wrote that book at least ten years ago!
I don't buy that. Everyone aboard would have known about the take over and subsequent gassing at minimum, plus one of Kirk's crew was gone. Add fifteen years and the story would have gotten out.
More likely is that Kirk reported events truthfully and in detail, including the final disposition of McGivers. Starfleet Command reviewed and approved of Kirk's actions.
Then we're back to the idea of the Federation (with strong symbolic ties to Earth and an incredible fear of genetic supermen) being cool with leaving a genocidal tyrant with his own planet.
Forget Nazis in South America...
I quite like the idea of Kirk fudging the details, because that's exactly the sort of charming jack-ass that he is. After all, as Greg pointed out, he did a very similar thing in Metamorphosis.
As for how you account for the gassing and the coup... I don't think the crew widely knew it was Khan. (Although I may be wrong.) Even if word got out, it's only one of a hundred-odd canonical adventures of the crew (including animated episodes, films, references, etc.) and not the most bizarre.
When you've been turned into a cube of salt or witnessed your weapons spontaneously heat up or heard rumours of a shape-shifting salt vampire or visited a planet that shapes itself to your fantasy, a little gassing and an attempt coup is a dull Friday afternoon.
"Remember that time the guy claiming to be Khan Noonien Singh was here?"
"That's nothing! Joe says he saw Lincoln last week. And Jane claims the Captain hung out a guy who was every genius who ever lived."
"Don't forget space Apollo."
"I thought I just had some gone-off cheese that time."
Hah! Good point. And don't forget the 20th century astronaut who visited the ship that one time, or the time Jack the Ripper possessed the ship's computers, or that witch who turned into a giant black cat.
Heck, a generation later, Janeway was openly dubious about some of the tall tales surrounding Kirk and his adventures, like Kirk meeting DaVinci and all that.
A tyrant from three centuries ago. Whose cause is dead, which has no power to move anyone. It's not Nazis in South America; it's more akin to discovering that, somehow, a vociferous dozen Antinomians had established a colony on Pitcairn Island. I'm going to guess that prospect doesn't really make you quake in terror, though at one time, they were a most dreaded thing.
If they are supermen with superior intelligence then it's a pandora's box waiting to be opened.
I think it was one of his Q books, but Peter David had a great scene where Picard and Jack Crusher were reading about The Squire of Gothos, for one of them to observe that Kirk was absolutely incapable of having a normal day. Always gave me a chuckle, that.
I kinda like to imagine that the stuff Kirk did report was met with eye rolls from command. "Yeah, Kirk. A planet of Nazis attacking a planet named Zion. Sure thing, Kirk. Next thing you'll be telling us you found a planet with an exact copy of the US Constitution."
To say nothing about the time when thanks to McCoy Kirk faked death so Spock could have the Vulcan version of an orgasm...
I love to imagine what happens when other ships receive transfers from the Enterprise.
"And then Captain Kirk gave control of his body to that disembodied alien he just met... but the one in Commander Spock tried to take over the ship. I think that was before the Kelvans turned us all to salt..."
"Yeah, sure it did."
"Oh, and let me tell you about the space vampire cloud! But you tell a story."
"Okay. So we're surveying this planet, right? All the readings are normal. The scientific data makes sense. And then... nothing crazy happens."
"Woah."
"Yeah."
To say nothing about that time we were all old except for Chekov because he was scared and then that moron took over my command and nearly got us all killed, fortunately I remembered which code had been cracked by the Romulans so...
Anyway, once again yours truly SAVED THE DAY!!!
Anyway, once again yours truly SAVED THE DAY!!!
"So let me get this straight, Kirk. Your ship was captured by hostile aliens but they were moving so fast that only you and Spock could see them? And all they really wanted was to use you for sex . . . because the queen of the aliens had the hots for you and wanted your baby?
"That's a great yarn, Kirk, but maybe you should save it for your drinking buddies."
"That's a great yarn, Kirk, but maybe you should save it for your drinking buddies."
Last edited:
"... So that's when happened a transporter malfunction...
- Don't tell me, Kirk, you all turned into children?
- Of course not, what makes you say something like that?
- Ok, so you became invisible and were able to move through walls?
- Yeah, very funny!
- Two of you fused into one person?
-Nope.
- Ok, I give up so what happened?
- We were back on the Enterprise, except it wasn't OUR enterprise. Everything was similar, yet different. We all wore sashes and our uniforms were more flamboyant. Spock had a goatee, Sulu had a scar across his face and was a sex maniac...
- Yeah, good story Kirk! And I bet Chekov screamed in pain.
- How did you know?
- He always does in your stories.
- Don't tell me, Kirk, you all turned into children?
- Of course not, what makes you say something like that?
- Ok, so you became invisible and were able to move through walls?
- Yeah, very funny!
- Two of you fused into one person?
-Nope.
- Ok, I give up so what happened?
- We were back on the Enterprise, except it wasn't OUR enterprise. Everything was similar, yet different. We all wore sashes and our uniforms were more flamboyant. Spock had a goatee, Sulu had a scar across his face and was a sex maniac...
- Yeah, good story Kirk! And I bet Chekov screamed in pain.
- How did you know?
- He always does in your stories.
I remember when ENT started, some fans were up in arms that it was ignoring that "canon" that First Contact with the Klingons was 2218 (rather than ENT's 2151)
I'm not sure if that's the date used in the Star Trek Chronology as I've never seen it, but I know for a fact it was used in the Star Trek Timeline of Issue #1 of the Star Trek Fact Files.
And I think that date only comes from some obscure TOS line, in a 2268 episode, that the Klingons and the Federation had been at loggerheads for around 50 years.
But I remember talking about this on here before, and another poster on this board said that line doesn't even exist. IIRC it was from a deleted scene or from the original script? I can't fully recall. But anyway, that 2218 date wasn't really based on anything solid at all.
And even then the episodes and movies aren't entirely consistent with each other, so "canon" sometimes requires a little fudging here and there. Not to mention some creative rationalizations at times!
And even then the episodes and movies aren't entirely consistent with each other, so "canon" sometimes requires a little fudging here and there. Not to mention some creative rationalizations at times!
That too.
Briefly ignoring ENT, I personally would have preferred that the Klingon were met much later than the 2150's. It would let the two side meet on a more equal basis. It would also allow Klingon space to be further away from Earth.
The 2240's works for me even more so.
From TUC;
Spock: "... an end to almost seventy years of unremitting hostility with the Klingons ... "
I don't immediately recall what year TUC supposedly takes place in, but if were about the mid 2280's then the 2218 date would work. That's assuming that the Federation and the Klingon were immediately hostile toward each other.
Similar threads
