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Christmas 08: the Next Doctor. Review

Daleks: Time of the Daleks, Blood of the Daleks, War of the Daleks, Terror Firma, Fire and Brimstone, Children of the Revolution
Cybermen: Sword of Orion, Human Resources, The Flood

I've probably forgotten a few. :)
I can think of The Girl Who Never Was for the Cybermen, but you seem to have covered all of the bases otherwise, as far as I know.
 
I thought it was a fairly good episode. The Jackson story was very touching and well done. The cyberdogs costumes poorly done, and even though the robot was a little silly I liked it.
 
Only plot point that wasn't explained is why the hell the Cybes, who are ten times stronger than an adult human, were using kids to push the drivewheels of their giant engine.

It was Dickens' London. Of course the evil bad lady would use children. Don't be ridiculous.
 
Daleks: Time of the Daleks, Blood of the Daleks, War of the Daleks, Terror Firma, Fire and Brimstone, Children of the Revolution
Cybermen: Sword of Orion, Human Resources, The Flood

I've probably forgotten a few. :)
I can think of The Girl Who Never Was for the Cybermen, but you seem to have covered all of the bases otherwise, as far as I know.
I knew I'd forgotten something. :)

I left off any story from the period when Kroton was traveling with the eighth Doctor and Izzy; I'm not sure that "counted" in the sense of Wamdue's question.

I also left off Legacy of the Daleks, which wasn't really a Dalek story.
 
I don't recall the 8th Doctor meeting the Cybermen or the Daleks.

oh right. Must be quiet about the plotholes :)

I like to image the 8th doctor had more than the single adventure we got to witness.
well we know he pretty much thought the Time War, after that is really hard to say, I generally just count the TV show, not all the books & audio's and everything else.

Of course I tend to belive the 8th Doctor had lots of off screen adventures between TVM & The Time War, same as I do for Sarah Jane between K9 & Company & School Reunion.
 
I like to image the 8th doctor had more than the single adventure we got to witness.
well we know he pretty much [fought] the Time War,
Wamdue, as I keep pointing out to you, we don't know that. Repeating it ad nauseum does not make it true.
:lol:you make it sound like we have discussed this before, I dont recall us doing so.

As for, did he or did he not fight the Time War, I tend to think the TV show has told enough enough about the Time War & the Doctors regeneration to know that 8 did fight at least part of the Time War. Im also pretty sure that alot of fandom will agree with me on this.
 
Sorry, Wamdue, I was misremembering who I was discussing the very thing with in the "Deadly Assassin" thread; it was Diankra, who raised the same idea -- that the eighth Doctor fought and died in the Time War.

There's no reason to think that.

In reality, there are reasons to think that the Time War is entirely the ninth Doctor's baby. The "Flood Barriers" essay in The Flood gives some evidence that RTD saw the Time War as purely the ninth Doctor's struggle. He wanted a regeneration in the comics to clear the decks, but he didn't want the ninth Doctor comics to follow directly on from the end of the eighth Doctor's era because there was a lot of stuff in between.

As you write, "I'm also pretty sure that alot of fandom will agree with me on this," and yes, a lot of fandom will, if asked, agree that the eighth Doctor died in the Time War. But there's no evidence for it, except for a feeling that it must be thus, and feelings don't substitute for fact. Whereas for the other view, there's evidence of RTD's authorial intent. Admittedly, it's the only evidence that exists, but it is evidence.

As I wrote in that other thread, Larry Niven once said that "The writer reserves the right to have a better idea." There's no reason why a future producer, like Steven Moffat, would be beholden to RTD's ideas on the Time War. For all we know, Moffat could decide that it was Richard E. Grant's Doctor or Rowan Atkinson's Doctor or even Joanna Lumley's Doctor that fought the Time War. If there's a story to be told of the Time War, then it will be told.

In all honesty, I'd rather the story wasn't told. Because whatever is told is unlikely to match up with the paintings fans have painted in their minds, from the little hints and dribs we've had the past four years. Any story of the Time War is bound to disappoint.
 
we may never know for sure what happened in the Time War, but as we learn more about it from the TV series, my guess at what happened in it changes.

I think that he fought most of the time War as the 8th Doctor, until he regenerated, becoming the 9th, and did the last desperate act to end the Time War (killing both Daleks & Time Lords) similar to Human10th Doctor act in Jounerys End

I believe this as 10 said that Human10 was born in a war, and then when giving Human10 to Rose, he compared him to the 9th Doctor when he first meet Rose.

I think short of the BBC actually making a Time War mini series we wont know the answer, and we can continue to discuss what we think happened. I build my theory on what is mentioned in the TV show, and that is the best way I know how to do that.

Now on to the second point, of did the 9th Doctor travel alone before Rose, I tend to think not, and certainly not for any period of time, I think the Auton of attack of Earth was thrust up on the Doctor after the Time War in the same way Donna was at the end of Parting of The Ways or the Titanic in The Last of the Time Lords / Time Crash.
 
I'm with you on this one King. Just from the first time he was in Roses apartment, checking out his reflection and commenting on his new look. I got the impression that he'd only recently regenerated and hadn't had a chance to see himself.
 
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I'm with you on this one King. Just from the one scene the first time he was in Roses apartment and he was checking out his reflection and commenting on his new look. I got the impression that he'd only recently regenerated and hadn't had a chance to see himself.
I agree
 
The first Tom Baker story, 'Robot', had, uh, a robot. Which later grew to gigantic proportions and iirc, stomped on things.

Funny you should say that - someone on another forum was complaining about how fake it looked. Aside from pointing out that it's not as if they could hire a real giant robot - pointed him to the Tom Baker debut with the really, really bad effects.

I always find it amazing when Classic fans complain about modern CGI :devil:
 
For all we know, Moffat could decide that it was... Rowan Atkinson's Doctor... that fought the Time War. If there's a story to be told of the Time War, then it will be told.

Sounds good to me. Blackadder Goes Forth with Daleks. The ending and solution may be too obvious though, as it would have to be some kind of plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel. Might be good TV though.
 
My feelings echo the majority I think. Very enjoyable, but the cybershades were shit and the cyberking was ridiculous. Other than that, fairly average nuwho romp - therefore quite decent.

And yeah, I came in pints during the Gratuitous Stock Footage Nostalgia Attack.
 
fine people can tell me off for this, but whilst I thought the CGI was up to task in the first series, I think the standard has slipped, but then I think the same of Primeval. That or ive watched too much Confidential and I know the tricks too well.
 
It was all right, largely unobjectionable. The part where the Doctor swung on the rope to rescue the kid was reminiscent of the Doctor Jesus moments in "Voyage of the Damned," wherein Rusty laid the hero-worship on entirely too thick. And I'm completely confused as to the need to have him use the balloon rather than the actual TARDIS.

But Morrissey was great and thankfully the shoegazing was kept to a minimum. And the gimmick underlying the "Next Doctor" actually made sense and didn't feel like a cheap cop-out as opposed to the idiotic technobabble that underscored the false regeneration and Doctor-Doctor-Donna crap of "Journey's End."

The worst part, however, was the scene near the end (that's been in the last 10 or so RTD episodes) where someone makes a big fruity speech about how "THAT'S THE DOCTOR! AND I KNOW THE DOCTOR! AND HE IS WONDERFUL BECAUSE HE IS THE DOCTOR! AND THE DOCTOR IS HE--SOMEONE HAND ME A TOWEL, I CAME."
 
oh right. Must be quiet about the plotholes :)

I like to image the 8th doctor had more than the single adventure we got to witness.

Of course I tend to believe the 8th Doctor had lots of off screen adventures between TVM & The Time War...

As do I. Which is exactly why it shouldn't be hard to imagine that the 8th doctor ran into the cybermen (or daleks) at one point. Especially since the doctor has met with them on so many other occasions. The fact that we didn't witness it, doesn't make it a plothole in 'The Next Doctor'.

My same argument goes for the 9th doctor.

I believe this as 10 said that Human10 was born in a war, and then when giving Human10 to Rose, he compared him to the 9th Doctor when he first meet Rose.

That is a good point. :)

Now on to the second point, of did the 9th Doctor travel alone before Rose, I tend to think not, and certainly not for any period of time, I think the Auton of attack of Earth was thrust up on the Doctor after the Time War in the same way Donna was at the end of Parting of The Ways or the Titanic in The Last of the Time Lords / Time Crash.

It couldn't have been quite that direct a series of events since we know the 9th doctor made (at least) a brief trip to the dock of the Titanic and to Texas before the events of 'Rose'.
 
fine people can tell me off for this, but whilst I thought the CGI was up to task in the first series, I think the standard has slipped, but then I think the same of Primeval. That or ive watched too much Confidential and I know the tricks too well.
I think in general the quality of the cgi has increased since the first series, but there is the occasion, such as the Cyberking trampling Old London Town where it has slipped. But I do agree about Primeval, series 2 wasn't as good as series 1.
 
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