CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

[Handyman]

First off, the snippet you posted is useless and baseless.
There is no validation that it exists (no links to the source) much less that it's no more than POSSIBLY, a complaint deposition filed by a plaintiff, whining about the loss of what they PERSONALLY PERCEIVE to be their property.

Again. You can sue (file claim) anybody for anything.

The suit (or deposition as the case may be) is NOT LAW. All it is, is the dog and pony part.
The decision on the other hand, IS LAW (until overturned anyway).

Drudging up the complaints doesn't validate anyone's side.

Show me the decision with the judges signature. Then I'll buy into your tirade.
Until then, my money is still on the completion of the film.

And by the way, paying yourself a salary isn't illegal or immoral in "for profit" or "not for profit" ventures. It's part of the costs of doing business. The amount may be questioned but even that becomes an incredibly complicated issue to prove fraud or over payment.
You were an ignorant fool if you didn't expect these guys to be paid out of the funds you invested.
Plus, so long as there's something to show for the monies collected (a set, electronics, lights, cameras, costumes, props etc.), it's again, incredibly difficult to find much less prove fraud.

 

[Firebird]

Show me the decision with the judges signature. Then I'll buy into your tirade

Given your posting history, I highly doubt that.

 

[Sgt_G]

@Woulfe ...

any one of us can take the image they posted & make it our own by doing what they 'failed' to do .... if it's like that on their website anyone can steal it outright

"Steal it" is the operative word. Once it's down on paper, or on the screen in this case, it's automatically protected by copyright. There is no requirement to register it to obtain copyright protection.

riffing is protected by the law as it falls under commentary / parody / satire clause.

Yes, commentary and parody are part of the fair use clause, but satire is not. I was surprised by that one, but it's true.

paying yourself a salary isn't illegal or immoral in "for profit" or "not for profit" ventures. It's part of the costs of doing business.

Illegal, no. However, it does seem rather immoral / unethical when all other fan-film productions only use raised money to build sets and buy equipment (and pay the occasional Guild professional actors) with no money going in anyone's pocket for car insurance, new tires, or sushi.

 

[Maurice]

Our 'new friend' made a basic error posting the image they made, for someone who 'claims' they know the 'law'[...]

Wait, what post is this in reference to?

 

[captainkirk]

a complaint deposition filed by a plaintiff, whining about the loss of what they PERSONALLY PERCEIVE to be their property.

If someone breaks into your house and steals your stuff are you going to say, "Well, I only perceived this to be my property so I guess it's okay for them to take it."? There is a reason IP laws exist. I'm an artist who gets paid to produce images, and if someone was taking something I made and trying to profit off it without compensating me I'd go after them too.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Until then, my money is still on the completion of the film.

Your money and other people's money is on the line. You may be right and a film that you are expecting might be completed. I hope so. But, previously > $1.6 million and many years did not get a film made, so you have a lot of faith based on no track record, or worse you have faith based on a track record of failure.

But, I hope it works out for you and you end up feeling that > $2 million to produce one short fan film is a wonderful use of donated money.

it's again, incredibly difficult to find much less prove fraud.

You are correct here. We are all innocent until proven guilty. But, given that it is so difficult to prove fraud, and so easy to hide misuse of funds, that is all the more reason to be extra careful in choosing who you give your money to. Somehow $1.6 million was spent with no result. Is it fraud? Is it mismanagement? Is it bad luck? A combination of all three? Certainly something happened that should not have happened and the contributors did not expect would happen. Well, review all the evidence and make your judgement. You don't need a judge or jury decision of guilt to base your decision on. Yes, there was a lawsuit that could be blamed for derailing them, but how convenient since it was the result of walking past the sleeping tiger while ringing a cowbell. How was Star Trek Continues made with such a high quality with far less money and no lawsuit? And, the last few episodes were made after the lawsuit without CBS going after Vic? Eleven episode were made over a similar time span that Axanar produced no film. Seems strange, does it not? Hmmm, someone knew how to raise funds, make films and not wake the sleeping tiger. That's what competence looks like, and that's what a good track record looks like.

Again, I hope it works out for you and you are happy with the end result.

 

[Noname Given]

First off.
I came on here to post a FACTUAL, update on Axanar. Not a useless opinion. a fact.
That's all.
The last thing I expected was to be hit on by a handful of pissed off children with no manners and I can promise you, it will be the last time I answer these pitiful complaints.

Given how Alec Peters likes to twist the facts regarding his Axanar production, sorry, but I wouldn't call anything Mr. Peters posts a 'fact' or 'factual'. He done nothing but lie to backers of the project from day one.

 

[jespah]

Here ya go. Here's the court's ruling on S/J, which is what set the settlement wheels in motion.

 

[mthompson1701]

And as a backer of the project, I feel like he has lied several times over. AP should not be taking a salary. I worked fo rite money I contributed to the project, and to see him taking that money paying himself a salary, buying tires and cell phones for doing nothing is just maddening. I do have proof of this it's called the Axanar Annual Report, as published by AP.

If I had been asked even five years ago, to be involved in a fan film, I would've jumped at the chance. Now because of Axanar, I only watch fan films, I no longer make any contributions, or wish to participate in the process of making the film. That's the effect Axanar has had on me, I no longer desire to make or be involved in making fan films. To those fan film producers who are reading this thread, I will continue to watch what you produce. I will be a cheering section for you.

I'll get off my soapbox now. To quote Forrest Gump, "and that's all I got to say about that."

 

[Maurice]

Given AP's terrible track record I would like to know what gives @Handyman any confidence or even hope that any Axanar production will actually happen. The evidence to date indicates an utter inability to execute (I'm excluding Prelude because pretty much everyone who made that film is gone except Alec). This isn't a challenge; it's an honest question.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Given AP's terrible track record I would like to know what gives @Handyman any confidence or even hope that any Axanar production will actually happen.

I think this is something like the "sunk-cost fallacy" or "escalation of commitment".

To quote wiki,

"behavioral scientists use a term, sunk-cost fallacy, to describe the justification of increased investment of money, time, lives, etc. in a decision, based on the cumulative prior investment ("sunk cost") despite new evidence suggesting that the cost, beginning immediately, of continuing the decision outweighs the expected benefit.".

"escalation of commitment is a human behavior pattern in which an individual or group facing increasingly negative outcomes from a decision, action, or investment nevertheless continues the behavior instead of altering course. The actor maintains behaviors that are irrational, but align with previous decisions and actions."

 

[fireproof78]

And by the way, paying yourself a salary isn't illegal or immoral in "for profit" or "not for profit" ventures.

No, making money on someone else's property is. CBS owns Star Trek. We as fans cannot make money on it, profit or nonprofit.

Again, if someone took your property and made money on it would you be OK with it? If not, why not?

 

[feek61]

First off, the snippet you posted is useless and baseless.
There is no validation that it exists (no links to the source) much less that it's no more than POSSIBLY, a complaint deposition filed by a plaintiff, whining about the loss of what they PERSONALLY PERCEIVE to be their property.

Again. You can sue (file claim) anybody for anything.

The suit (or deposition as the case may be) is NOT LAW. All it is, is the dog and pony part.
The decision on the other hand, IS LAW (until overturned anyway).

Drudging up the complaints doesn't validate anyone's side.

Show me the decision with the judges signature. Then I'll buy into your tirade.
Until then, my money is still on the completion of the film.

And by the way, paying yourself a salary isn't illegal or immoral in "for profit" or "not for profit" ventures. It's part of the costs of doing business. The amount may be questioned but even that becomes an incredibly complicated issue to prove fraud or over payment.
You were an ignorant fool if you didn't expect these guys to be paid out of the funds you invested.
Plus, so long as there's something to show for the monies collected (a set, electronics, lights, cameras, costumes, props etc.), it's again, incredibly difficult to find much less prove fraud.

Anyone still giving money to this con man is a fool. How many failed businesses does he have? How many lies has he told? Why should fans be expected to pay his salary? Why has he alienated everyone whom he has worked with including industry professionals and actors? He stole 300K from the MGM auction and never paid them. He is a bully who will do anything to stop people from saying anything negative about him including frivolous lawsuits. Speaking of lawsuits that he lost; he never paid the judgement against him and never paid his lawyers. Why is there no movie after over 1.6 million dollars of money fans gave him specifically to make the movie (about three times what the entire Star Trek Continues series in total cost)?

Why would anyone trust this guy?


Where is the movie Alec????

Any fool still giving money to this scam artist deserves to be taken.

 

[fireproof78]

Why is there no movie after over 1.6 million dollars of money fans gave him specifically to make the movie?

This is the question. I don't care about Alec or his personal dealings. The man took in money with the specific statement of making Axanar.

Where is it?

 

[KennyB]

I think this is something like the "sunk-cost fallacy" or "escalation of commitment".

To quote wiki,

"behavioral scientists use a term, sunk-cost fallacy, to describe the justification of increased investment of money, time, lives, etc. in a decision, based on the cumulative prior investment ("sunk cost") despite new evidence suggesting that the cost, beginning immediately, of continuing the decision outweighs the expected benefit.".

"escalation of commitment is a human behavior pattern in which an individual or group facing increasingly negative outcomes from a decision, action, or investment nevertheless continues the behavior instead of altering course. The actor maintains behaviors that are irrational, but align with previous decisions and actions."

Sounds like the shell game! :-)

 

[captainkirk]

Has anyone wondered if @Handyman is in fact, Peters? It would certainly explain a lot.

 

[Noname Given]

Has anyone wondered if @Handyman is in fact, Peters? It would certainly explain a lot.

He's not Alec Peters. Why do I say that? Because if it were Peters, by the third post he'd be cussing out someone, and/or using the term "Hater".

 

[KennyB]

Has anyone wondered if @Handyman is in fact, Peters? It would certainly explain a lot.

He is not LFIM. He is in fact a Handyman. And he doesn't like trains. Follow the breadcrumbs..........

 

[Woulfe]

Here ya go. Here's the court's ruling on S/J, which is what set the settlement wheels in motion.

Any bets our 'new friend' didn't even bother to go though this even once ?

The prize is a free internet cookie ;-)

Satire isn't, that's a surprise... I would of thought it was same as Parody... Oh well

 

[jespah]

He's not Alec Peters. Why do I say that? Because if it were Peters, by the third post he'd be cussing out someone, and/or using the term "Hater".

Also far better spelling.