CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by jespah, May 10, 2018.

?

Do you enjoy pie?

  1. Yes, sweet, please

    53 vote(s)
    43.8%
  2. Yes, savory, please

    27 vote(s)
    22.3%
  3. Yes, any kind

    47 vote(s)
    38.8%
  4. No, I'm a heathen

    23 vote(s)
    19.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Woulfe

    Woulfe Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry about that, I have old fart syndrome, it kinda happens when you hit middle age ;-)

    We're gonna fight for you... Put away your swords... There's no use to fighting... Don't you know that it's all over... It was nice... But now it's gone... Don't you worry about the future... Stick to fishing from now on...
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  2. KennyB

    KennyB Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    No doubt........I'm living the dream as well.
     
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  3. Woulfe

    Woulfe Commodore Commodore

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    Our 'new friend' made a basic error posting the image they made, for someone who 'claims' they know the 'law'
    I'll just say any one of us can take the image they posted & make it our own by doing what they 'failed' to do
    Even if they didn't post it the point still remains if it's like that on their website anyone can steal it outright
    I won't say what the mistake is, as if they are really SMART they can figure it out themselves, right ?

    Even I know better then to forget something so basic when I draw something by hand. Heck when I do my live streaming puppet show it's right there during the opening credits for all to see, to cover myself just in case someone decides to be a wiseguy and steal my show from me, well, the puppet part anyway, as the pre-recorded stuff I don't own, but riffing is protected by the law as it falls under commentary / parody / satire clause. Thank you Weird Al ;-)
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  4. Handyman

    Handyman Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    First off, the snippet you posted is useless and baseless.
    There is no validation that it exists (no links to the source) much less that it's no more than POSSIBLY, a complaint deposition filed by a plaintiff, whining about the loss of what they PERSONALLY PERCEIVE to be their property.

    Again. You can sue (file claim) anybody for anything.

    The suit (or deposition as the case may be) is NOT LAW. All it is, is the dog and pony part.
    The decision on the other hand, IS LAW (until overturned anyway).

    Drudging up the complaints doesn't validate anyone's side.

    Show me the decision with the judges signature. Then I'll buy into your tirade.
    Until then, my money is still on the completion of the film.

    And by the way, paying yourself a salary isn't illegal or immoral in "for profit" or "not for profit" ventures. It's part of the costs of doing business. The amount may be questioned but even that becomes an incredibly complicated issue to prove fraud or over payment.
    You were an ignorant fool if you didn't expect these guys to be paid out of the funds you invested.
    Plus, so long as there's something to show for the monies collected (a set, electronics, lights, cameras, costumes, props etc.), it's again, incredibly difficult to find much less prove fraud.
     
  5. Firebird

    Firebird Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Given your posting history, I highly doubt that.
     
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  6. Sgt_G

    Sgt_G Commodore Commodore

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    @Woulfe ...
    "Steal it" is the operative word. Once it's down on paper, or on the screen in this case, it's automatically protected by copyright. There is no requirement to register it to obtain copyright protection.
    Yes, commentary and parody are part of the fair use clause, but satire is not. I was surprised by that one, but it's true.

    Illegal, no. However, it does seem rather immoral / unethical when all other fan-film productions only use raised money to build sets and buy equipment (and pay the occasional Guild professional actors) with no money going in anyone's pocket for car insurance, new tires, or sushi.
     
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  7. Maurice

    Maurice Admiral Premium Member

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    Wait, what post is this in reference to?
     
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  8. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    South Africa
    If someone breaks into your house and steals your stuff are you going to say, "Well, I only perceived this to be my property so I guess it's okay for them to take it."? There is a reason IP laws exist. I'm an artist who gets paid to produce images, and if someone was taking something I made and trying to profit off it without compensating me I'd go after them too.
     
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  9. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    Your money and other people's money is on the line. You may be right and a film that you are expecting might be completed. I hope so. But, previously > $1.6 million and many years did not get a film made, so you have a lot of faith based on no track record, or worse you have faith based on a track record of failure.

    But, I hope it works out for you and you end up feeling that > $2 million to produce one short fan film is a wonderful use of donated money.

    You are correct here. We are all innocent until proven guilty. But, given that it is so difficult to prove fraud, and so easy to hide misuse of funds, that is all the more reason to be extra careful in choosing who you give your money to. Somehow $1.6 million was spent with no result. Is it fraud? Is it mismanagement? Is it bad luck? A combination of all three? Certainly something happened that should not have happened and the contributors did not expect would happen. Well, review all the evidence and make your judgement. You don't need a judge or jury decision of guilt to base your decision on. Yes, there was a lawsuit that could be blamed for derailing them, but how convenient since it was the result of walking past the sleeping tiger while ringing a cowbell. How was Star Trek Continues made with such a high quality with far less money and no lawsuit? And, the last few episodes were made after the lawsuit without CBS going after Vic? Eleven episode were made over a similar time span that Axanar produced no film. Seems strange, does it not? Hmmm, someone knew how to raise funds, make films and not wake the sleeping tiger. That's what competence looks like, and that's what a good track record looks like.

    Again, I hope it works out for you and you are happy with the end result.
     
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  10. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Given how Alec Peters likes to twist the facts regarding his Axanar production, sorry, but I wouldn't call anything Mr. Peters posts a 'fact' or 'factual'. He done nothing but lie to backers of the project from day one.
     
  11. jespah

    jespah Rear Admiral Moderator

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    Here ya go. Here's the court's ruling on S/J, which is what set the settlement wheels in motion.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. mthompson1701

    mthompson1701 Commander Red Shirt

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    Oct 18, 2001
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    Out there, thataway
    And as a backer of the project, I feel like he has lied several times over. AP should not be taking a salary. I worked fo rite money I contributed to the project, and to see him taking that money paying himself a salary, buying tires and cell phones for doing nothing is just maddening. I do have proof of this it's called the Axanar Annual Report, as published by AP.

    If I had been asked even five years ago, to be involved in a fan film, I would've jumped at the chance. Now because of Axanar, I only watch fan films, I no longer make any contributions, or wish to participate in the process of making the film. That's the effect Axanar has had on me, I no longer desire to make or be involved in making fan films. To those fan film producers who are reading this thread, I will continue to watch what you produce. I will be a cheering section for you.

    I'll get off my soapbox now. To quote Forrest Gump, "and that's all I got to say about that."
     
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  13. Maurice

    Maurice Admiral Premium Member

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    Given AP's terrible track record I would like to know what gives @Handyman any confidence or even hope that any Axanar production will actually happen. The evidence to date indicates an utter inability to execute (I'm excluding Prelude because pretty much everyone who made that film is gone except Alec). This isn't a challenge; it's an honest question.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  14. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    I think this is something like the "sunk-cost fallacy" or "escalation of commitment".

    To quote wiki,

    "behavioral scientists use a term, sunk-cost fallacy, to describe the justification of increased investment of money, time, lives, etc. in a decision, based on the cumulative prior investment ("sunk cost") despite new evidence suggesting that the cost, beginning immediately, of continuing the decision outweighs the expected benefit.".

    "escalation of commitment is a human behavior pattern in which an individual or group facing increasingly negative outcomes from a decision, action, or investment nevertheless continues the behavior instead of altering course. The actor maintains behaviors that are irrational, but align with previous decisions and actions."
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    No, making money on someone else's property is. CBS owns Star Trek. We as fans cannot make money on it, profit or nonprofit.

    Again, if someone took your property and made money on it would you be OK with it? If not, why not?
     
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  16. feek61

    feek61 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Anyone still giving money to this con man is a fool. How many failed businesses does he have? How many lies has he told? Why should fans be expected to pay his salary? Why has he alienated everyone whom he has worked with including industry professionals and actors? He stole 300K from the MGM auction and never paid them. He is a bully who will do anything to stop people from saying anything negative about him including frivolous lawsuits. Speaking of lawsuits that he lost; he never paid the judgement against him and never paid his lawyers. Why is there no movie after over 1.6 million dollars of money fans gave him specifically to make the movie (about three times what the entire Star Trek Continues series in total cost)?

    Why would anyone trust this guy?


    Where is the movie Alec????

    Any fool still giving money to this scam artist deserves to be taken.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    This is the question. I don't care about Alec or his personal dealings. The man took in money with the specific statement of making Axanar.

    Where is it?
     
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  18. KennyB

    KennyB Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Sounds like the shell game! :-)
     
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  19. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Has anyone wondered if @Handyman is in fact, Peters? It would certainly explain a lot.
     
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  20. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    He's not Alec Peters. Why do I say that? Because if it were Peters, by the third post he'd be cussing out someone, and/or using the term "Hater". ;)