The "Classic Trilogy" heroes had over 30 years of personal success and prosperity; the end of that success and prosperity doesn't invalidate anything that they did prior to the tragedies and problems that befell them and the galaxy.
News Captain Pike Has Been Cast
- Thread starter Mr. Laser Beam
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The "Classic Trilogy" heroes had over 30 years of personal success and prosperity; the end of that success and prosperity doesn't invalidate anything that they did prior to the tragedies and problems that befell them and the galaxy.
Now, I know you didn't just suggest to do a Tarkin on freaking Leonard Nimoy?!? I am just seeing things, this could not possibly be what you suggested, RIGHT?!?!?
I wouldn't want them to do anything on face....but maybe some on the clothing and this is an image via viewscreen/holoprojector so not a live image of him. Having him shown via holoprojector would be fairly easy I would think to make an accurate representation. Just as in Star Wars - Admiral Tarkin via holoprojector would have been a much better representation.
Bonus! Plus canonical reference to an official rank of Fleet Captain! I think there was a question about that in the "Ranks" thread, either as it applied to Pike or Garth, more as an honorarium rather than a promotion.
Yep, that makes it clear that it is an actual rank in TOS.
Pike's comments in The Cage are perfectly in line with what we saw onscreen throughout TOS. During the early days of Starfleet and the Federation, there are far, far more men in service as officers than women. We saw multiple ships and starbases in TOS where this was true.
So really, Pike was perfectly in line with the universe he was in.
Perhaps also "Fleet Captain" morphed into "Chief of Starfleet Operations", the same duty Kirk took on prior to TMP. Not a rank, but an assignment. Is there any evidence to suggest that Pike was still Captain during The Menagerie? Might he have been an Admiral (albeit unspoken)? I could check the script, but I'm too lazy!
Kirk was Chief of Starfleet Operations as an Admiral, so I think that's a bit of a stretch.
Kirk said that Pike had already been promoted to Fleet Captain, so I'm going to say "no."
Watching the incredible series LEGION on FX.
Feels like a modern take on the cerebral stuff we saw in "The Cage" mixed with that 60s aesthetics.
Definitely getting Talosian vibes from it. Wish they did the Talosians as the villains of "Into Darkness" instead of Cumberkhan. So much potential.
Feels like a modern take on the cerebral stuff we saw in "The Cage" mixed with that 60s aesthetics.
Definitely getting Talosian vibes from it. Wish they did the Talosians as the villains of "Into Darkness" instead of Cumberkhan. So much potential.
I doubt that would be done well.
My point was that "Fleet Captain" wasn't a rank, but an assignment. Perhaps Pike was promoted to Admiral, in charge of the fleet. Kirk was promoted to Admiral, also in charge of the fleet ("Chief of Starfleet Operations", an assignment, not a rank).
I understood you.
Interesting. This is an attitude you've expressed quite a few times now, about Trek and other things as well.
Perhaps it's admirably nonjudgmental, I don't know. I just can't get myself into that same headspace. I can't help thinking that when I (not a professional fictional writer, or a filmmaker, or a TV producer) can watch something and think of more effective ways the story could be told, the people being handed millions of dollars to tell it ought to be able to think of those alternatives as well. And if they consistently show that they don't, that they have worse storytelling instincts than I do (and/or than other viewers I discuss things with), then my patience wears thin fairly quickly.
Another example (from another franchise)... I vividly remember when Prometheus came out a few years back. I went to see it what a couple of friends, and we were all excitedly anticipating something awesome. Ridley Scott is a talented director, we'd all enjoyed previous Aliens films, it had a great cast, and basically it seemed to have everything going for it. But. The writing. Ohmigod, the writing. When we left that theater two hours later, we were looking at each other with looks of stunned disappointment on our faces. There was just so much wrong with the story. We dissected it mercilessly over beers, and that conversation was probably more entertaining than the movie itself.
For a moment I thought, "wow, we don't actually know that for sure, do we?," and thought that might be an exciting surprise... but then I checked the transcript and saw what this thread has already revealed. Pike commanded the Enterprise 13 years before "Menagerie," and also commanded it immediately before Jim Kirk, so the thought that he detoured to command another ship in-between and then went back would be awfully contrived.
However...
We know nothing at all (canonically) about the rest of Number One's career. She would make a pretty darn interesting captain for Discovery (assuming they can cast the role well).
And, hmm, why would the season finale have mentioned they were heading to meet the new captain and specifically declined to mention a name, unless the writers were hiding a surprising reveal up their sleeves (something they've shown a liking for), meaning presumably some familiar pre-existing character?...
To nitpick a bit (hey, I'm a timeliner!), "JTB" fits better set in 2267. That's where I have it in my timeline, based on the progression of events in TOS. Using the "broadcast + 300" rule of thumb, it was also broadcast in 1967 (November), and that's the year the Okudachron has it in. Memory Alpha does list it as '68, but I'm honestly not sure why. To my thinking, Spock entered the Academy in 2249 (18 years earlier), graduated in two or three years (he was a quick study), served briefly aboard some other ship, transferred to the Enterprise in 2253, and served there under Pike until 2264, when Kirk took over.
Also, technically, Spock told the Romulan Commander he'd been an officer in Starfleet for 18 years as of "TEE" (which does belong in 2268). That doesn't quite seem to fit, unless he was promoted to Ensign while still at the Academy (but that has been known to happen, and it seems likelier than Spock rounding off a number).
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As mentioned, there is evidence from The Menagerie. There was also a mention in "Mirror, Mirror" - Mirror Kirk became Captain by assassinating Pike.
A rank that existed as a halfway point between Captain and Commodore. I'm not sure just how much less prestige and power a Fleet Captain has than a Commodore but seeing as Garth of Izar was also described as a Fleet Captain and was such a revered legend in his own time I imagine it was a more prestigious rank than one might assume based on its spot in the Starfleet ranking system.
I've seen a few people suggest this, but I don't really get the appeal myself. We know next to nothing about her, and what we did see got taken forward in the character of Spock. We couldn't call her 'Number One' if she was coming on board as the captain, so there wouldn't even be that carryover. They'd just make up a name for her. What would be particularly good about having this specific character over an original female character?
Just speculating, I suppose... but I'm hard-pressed to think of any other characters known to be active in the period that would've made it worthwhile not to just mention the new captain's name in the season finale.
(Unless... there is Captain Garth. He's out there and available. Ooh, the Internet would explode if they did that!...)
(Or maybe Matt Decker?... but beyond that I'm really reaching...)
Granted, if they do go with a preexisting character, any fan familiarity they're trying to leverage will indeed be fairly scant. We don't know Number One very well, nor any other character from the era. Still, I think she could be interesting. What we do know is that she's a highly competent human with a Vulcan-like demeanor, and putting someone like that up against the superficially similar Burnham could IMHO make for some really interesting comparisons and contrasts. (And David Mack in Desperate Hours established a really strong dynamic between her and Saru... if they were to use her along lines at all like that, it could be a lot of fun.)
(Unless... there is Captain Garth. He's out there and available. Ooh, the Internet would explode if they did that!...)
(Or maybe Matt Decker?... but beyond that I'm really reaching...)
Granted, if they do go with a preexisting character, any fan familiarity they're trying to leverage will indeed be fairly scant. We don't know Number One very well, nor any other character from the era. Still, I think she could be interesting. What we do know is that she's a highly competent human with a Vulcan-like demeanor, and putting someone like that up against the superficially similar Burnham could IMHO make for some really interesting comparisons and contrasts. (And David Mack in Desperate Hours established a really strong dynamic between her and Saru... if they were to use her along lines at all like that, it could be a lot of fun.)
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