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News Captain Pike Has Been Cast

My take on not naming the captain and making them inexplicably far away was that they are probably setting up a scenario where Saru ends up Captain, as a result of whatever shenanigans go on with the Enterprise. Or at least, they don't make it to Vulcan this season so he continues acting up. Could be wrong of course, we know how much this show adores a carefully telegraphed reveal, but if you insert a Captain as well it seems like there are too many officers of high rank with few if any in the middle.
 
Could be. I don't really think the writers would do a headfake about something like that, though; if they wanted to have Saru in command for story reasons, they would've just had him promoted (especially after the big awards ceremony) and made it official.

But hey, I'm just reading tea leaves, and they haven't really given us very many of those...
 
Pike's comments in The Cage are perfectly in line with what we saw onscreen throughout TOS. During the early days of Starfleet and the Federation, there are far, far more men in service as officers than women. We saw multiple ships and starbases in TOS where this was true.

So really, Pike was perfectly in line with the universe he was in.

We never saw toilets either so does this mean they do not exist in the Star Trek universe? I doubt it. What we saw on screen was a small section of a Federation with a population of trillions of various races who do not all look like White American males. We never saw multiple ships and starbases in TOS or TAS, there was a handful at best.
 
My point was that "Fleet Captain" wasn't a rank, but an assignment. Perhaps Pike was promoted to Admiral, in charge of the fleet. Kirk was promoted to Admiral, also in charge of the fleet ("Chief of Starfleet Operations", an assignment, not a rank).
More like in charge of a sector of fleets, if he was in charge of the fleet that would make him The top Admiral.
 
I dunno. I feel like there would be something to be gained if we discover that the Trek future isn't just a straight arrow of progress - that even though things get better overall, there are areas where things regressed for a time. There's analogues in history here - such as the U.S. actually getting significantly more racist as the 19th century progressed.

Maybe there was some (minority) social view that as work became more rare, women should have gone back to their traditional roles of household management and child-rearing? Obviously this was dead by the 24th century, when humans found Ferengi sexism outmoded, but still, it could have had a brief period of popularity in the 23rd.
No. Just no. NO, NO, NO!!!

I hope I made myself clear.

NO!!!
 
Perhaps it's admirably nonjudgmental, I don't know. I just can't get myself into that same headspace.
It isn't easy. And, it isn't like I can't be disappointed in films or that I don't like films. It is that I'm not going to sit there in the middle of the film and tear it apart. That pretty much kills the point of watching media is immediately going, "Well, if I was in charge..."

Secondly, my experience has been that if I go in to something with the expectation "Because Star Trek" or "Because Star Wars" there is an automatic set up for failure. Whatever my expectations are, films cannot live up to them. That's just been my experience, and listening to friends over the years has just worn me out of the constant nitpicking, with little enjoyment of the actual product. Instead, there is just anger and hostility at the writers. It just isn't worth the anger, in my opinion.
 
We never saw toilets either so does this mean they do not exist in the Star Trek universe? I doubt it. What we saw on screen was a small section of a Federation with a population of trillions of various races who do not all look like White American males. We never saw multiple ships and starbases in TOS or TAS, there was a handful at best.

We saw a significant amount. Check memory alpha if you want a comprehensive list.

Point is, Pike's comments weren't out of step with everything else we saw and heard on screen during TOS.

Even in today's US military, women account for about 15% of active-duty personnel. TOS was more or less in line with that onscreen, and Pike could have very well served on a ship with no 'women on the bridge' prior.
 
Pike did say that his own yeoman was one of the casualties on Rigel VII. Perhaps his unease at having a woman on the bridge was simply because Colt was not that yeoman?

Meaning, Pike's real problem was accepting his crewmate's death - he didn't have a problem with women in general, just with having a new yeoman.

True, Pike's previous yeoman could have been male. But this would still apply.
 
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Perhaps it's admirably nonjudgmental, I don't know. I just can't get myself into that same headspace. I can't help thinking that when I (not a professional fictional writer, or a filmmaker, or a TV producer) can watch something and think of more effective ways the story could be told, the people being handed millions of dollars to tell it ought to be able to think of those alternatives as well. And if they consistently show that they don't, that they have worse storytelling instincts than I do (and/or than other viewers I discuss things with), then my patience wears thin fairly quickly.

Another example (from another franchise)... I vividly remember when Prometheus came out a few years back. I went to see it what a couple of friends, and we were all excitedly anticipating something awesome. Ridley Scott is a talented director, we'd all enjoyed previous Aliens films, it had a great cast, and basically it seemed to have everything going for it. But. The writing. Ohmigod, the writing. When we left that theater two hours later, we were looking at each other with looks of stunned disappointment on our faces. There was just so much wrong with the story. We dissected it mercilessly over beers, and that conversation was probably more entertaining than the movie itself.

Creating is fucking hard. Critiquing is easy.
And it's not as if the fault always lies with the writers. More often than not, they are given shit notes from their bosses about what they had to do.

For example, while I think (IMO) my ideas for the worldbuilding in the Star Wars sequel trilogy are vastly superiour to what Disney cooked up - I'd have no idea how to tell an interesting story out of it. And they definitely put their priorities in having a new cast, but still doing "the Star Wars stuff" - aka a bunch of misfits fighting against the evil, overwhelming Empire. That they destroyed their whole worldbuilding in the process was just an afterthought.

"Prometheus" is also an interesting case: Originally, it was a screenplay called "Alien: Engineers", that was a direct prequel to the original "Alien", which explained how the Engineers starship crashed on that moon (the script is online for free, you can read it, it's quite good). And then...? Suddenly a producer came in and said: "People don't like prequels anymore. So let's cut all the connections. Also: Don't show the original alien" (in an alien movie!). Then the original writer quit. Understandably. And then they got Damon Lindelof as a quick "fixer" - to take the Alien prequel script, cleanse it of all direct prequel set-ups, and take the "Alien" out of it - but at the same time use the same plot structure, sets and characters that were already created, and set up "mysteries" for potential sequels. IN THE MIDDLE OF PRODUCTION. It's unbelievably stupid - But it was not a creative decision, it was an objective from one of the money guys, and thus it had to be done, no matter what.

Star Trek: Discovery seem to have been befallen by the same fate: Bryan Fuller wanted to do 1) A prequel set in his favourite timeline, that was also 2) a visual reboot. The producers of CBS All Access straight up came to him and said: "We have no plans, just do what you want". And he did. And then they came in and said: "Nope. Not this way". Fuller originally wanted to have tricolored uniforms, and a vastly different type of storytelling. Instead they canned his ass. And the current writers are the "fixers" - like Lindelof was on Prometheus: Their only job is: "Get this show running, ASAP. Without costing any more money." Thus, they cooked up some wild story that could take place on the already created sets with the existing costumes and vfx models. Make no mistake: This wasn't a "vision" being fullfilled by someone creative. This was purely about: "We already paid money for this - we need a result hitting the screen, soon, no matter what it ends up being exactly". And thus we are given a wild mixture of stuff Fuller wanted, of what the producers forced Fuller to add which directly contradicted his stuff, and some "fixers" trying to generate at least something out of that mess that can be sold as "content", no matter if any of it makes sense or is any good.

This is called "development hell". And apparently, it's the way Hollywood regularly operates.
 
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Pike could have very well served on a ship with no 'women on the bridge' prior.
So you find it feasible he served on a ship with 99% white humans only on the bridge based on what was onscreen? Kirk's Enterprise in TOS and TAS showed females on the bridge, one of them was not even human. Pike's era showed one starship on the screen...his ship.
 
So you find it feasible he served on a ship with 99% white humans only on the bridge based on what was onscreen? Kirk's Enterprise in TOS and TAS showed females on the bridge, one of them was not even human. Pike's era showed one starship on the screen...his ship.

There were females in service, but they were definitely in the vast minority. TOS essentially used them as background eye candy. They were vastly outnumbered by the male officers.

Pike's previous bridge crew (before Rigel) was all men and Number One (who he doesn't see as a woman because she's a emotionally detached computer). So that's the real reason he's not used to a woman on the bridge.

Colt came off as very feminine, she's basically a young girl.. and that threw him off.
 
Maybe there was some (minority) social view that as work became more rare, women should have gone back to their traditional roles of household management and child-rearing? Obviously this was dead by the 24th century, when humans found Ferengi sexism outmoded, but still, it could have had a brief period of popularity in the 23rd.

No. Just no. NO, NO, NO!!!

I hope I made myself clear.

NO!!!

Actually, I could totally see this actually happening in the real world. Not that society thinks women should stay home, just that lots of mothers will choose to do so if given access to a Federation Style safety net.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/186050/children-key-factor-women-desire-work-outside-home.aspx

Currently 29% stay home, but 56% would like to. The wildcard would be access to free childcare, but since the poll is a "would you if you could" question then the numbers might not change that much.

Also, the could be many many women who are stay at home moms in the 24th century and the Federation could still call the Ferengi sexist because Ferengi women don't have a choice and Federation women do.
 
To nitpick a bit (hey, I'm a timeliner!), "JTB" fits better set in 2267. That's where I have it in my timeline, based on the progression of events in TOS. Using the "broadcast + 300" rule of thumb, it was also broadcast in 1967 (November), and that's the year the Okudachron has it in. Memory Alpha does list it as '68, but I'm honestly not sure why. To my thinking, Spock entered the Academy in 2249 (18 years earlier), graduated in two or three years (he was a quick study), served briefly aboard some other ship, transferred to the Enterprise in 2253, and served there under Pike until 2264, when Kirk took over.

I think 2253-2264 with Spock serving under Pike works best. In "Amok Time" (2267) Kirk talks about how Spock has never requested leave in all the years he's served with him. "All the years" doesn't really work until it's been at least three.

Unless... there is Captain Garth. He's out there and available. Ooh, the Internet would explode if they did that!...

Because of my username, I don't think I should weigh in on this due to bias. ;)
 
I think 2253-2264 with Spock serving under Pike works best. In "Amok Time" (2267) Kirk talks about how Spock has never requested leave in all the years he's served with him. "All the years" doesn't really work until it's been at least three.

Honestly? For a fictional universe, I'm still fuckin' AMAZED how well the Star Trek timeline holds up (1996 Augment wars notwithstanding - but from the 22nd century onward). The MARVEL cinematic universe is only 18 movies in so far - which are produced much closer to each other and under much stricter creative control - and their timeline (Avengers - Civil War - Spider-Man) is already much more broken under closer inspection.

Honestly? Star Treks often maligned "continuity" and "canon" is actually a fuckin' masterpiece of shared universe storytelling. And IMO one of Star Trek's biggest strenghts it has as an IP.
 
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