I have an expression that I say in Real Life, that I picked up down the line and made my own: "If you can't please everyone equally, offend everyone equally."
News Captain Pike Has Been Cast
- Thread starter Mr. Laser Beam
- Start date
I have an expression that I say in Real Life, that I picked up down the line and made my own: "If you can't please everyone equally, offend everyone equally."
Well, remember - Yoda did the SAME THING after the Clone Wars. He became a recluse on Dagoba and wanted nothing more to do with the Jedi. Then Luke arrived, and with a bit of coaxing from Ben Kenobi's 'Force Ghost'; Yoda trained Luke.
In TFA, I sure a lot of people were expecting a similar 'turnaround' for Luke - and Yoda's force ghost even made an appearance; but instead of training Rey, he stayed a recluse and just provided a delaying action (cool scene, but IMO in the end somewhat disappointing) - and then he 'faded' to join Ben's and Yoda's force ghosts; leaving Rey to ultimately face the Emo Darth Vader Wannabe in the final film.
*to pick up your completely off-topic conversation....
Yeah. To be honest, I was extremely uncomfortable with how "Force Awakens" treated the old cast: Han and Leia got divorced, had a son that became a genocidal sociopath, that wiped out all of Luke's trainées, the Empire is wiping out more planets and killing billions of people more than ever before, the free Republic - everything our heroes fought for - went to shit completely, the galaxy is at war continually since more than 30 years, and basically the entire shown universe went from "desolated, but living and thriving borderland" to "apocalyptic wasteland".
But it was a fun movie. So people didn't care or notice.
People apparently simply didn't notice the dissonance here. The Last Jedi did actually nothing more than treat this shit seriously. With the respect it deserves. And suddenly, everyone realizes this new Star Wars universe is a broken wasteland were every single character we ever met is a failure and the blood of millions on their hands. That was already apparent in Force Awakens! People just didn't notice. HOW? I still don't get it...?
I don't like this direction the franchise took. Like, really not liking it - it went from an optimistic adventure where freedom and individualism prevails to an apocalyptic nightmare of failure and mass death. But that was ' The Force Awakens'. NOT "The Last Jedi". That just picked up the ball and continued where it logically would fall.
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All of that stuff happened in a period of between 4 to 6 years directly prior to the events of The Force Awakens, but I would point out that, casting all of that aside, what the Sequel Trilogy establishes insofar as the state of the galaxy is concerned is a direct echo and mirror of what happened in and between the Prequel and "Classic" Trilogies in the Saga.
I liked him in Hell on Wheels, but we'll see how they use him here.
I was unaware they shared a parent.
That's what I get for ranting off
, fixed it in my original post.Me, personally, I couldn't give a damn if we see Spock or not, if Spock is a blonde and if Enterprise has 3 nacelles or not. I just want a good story, damn it. I want good writing that makes sense, not the sometimes incomprehensible crap we have seen in Season 1.
I also want producers that do not think that their fans are idiots and will swallow all the crap without question. Why are writers insisting that they are in Prime while visually changing absolutely everything. "This is the D7 from Prime", and "These are Klingons from Prime". Bwaaahaahah, give me a break. You want a pre-TOS show, fine, make it look like TOS. Your want a "visually rebooted" show? Fine, make it a full reboot and call it that. With Captain Jane Kirk and Andorian Spock (grandson of Shran) You know what? I'll watch both.
I had absolutely 0 issues with nuBSG, because producers went out and said, it's a reboot. You can't make it more clear than changing the sex of one of the main characters. I loved that show, why? Because it had freaking good writing (for the most part anyway). Firefly? Awesome show with good writing and freaking good characters I can get behind. What do we have in STD season 1 that we'll remember 10-20-30 years from now?
So yeah, if we see a blond Spock, fantastic if they can write him in that makes good freaking sense. At this point though, because I do not believe writing for STD can be good on consistent level, just leave him out of it. Don't introduce a character if you cannot do him justice and will just butcher him.
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That's what I get for ranting off
Me, personally, I couldn't give a damn if we see Spock or not, if Spock is a blonde and if Enterprise has 3 nacelles or not. I just want a good story, damn it. I want good writing that makes sense, not the sometimes incomprehensible crap we have seen in Season 1.
I also want producers that do not think that their fans are idiots and will swallow all the crap without question. Why are writers insisting that they are in Prime while visually changing absolutely everything. "This is the D7 from Prime", and "These are Klingons from Prime". Bwaaahaahah, give me a break. You want a pre-TOS show, fine, make it look like TOS. Your want a "visually rebooted" show? Fine, make it a full reboot and call it that. With Captain Jane Kirk and Andorian Spock (grandson of Shran) You know what? I'll watch both.
I had absolutely 0 issues with nuBSG, because producers went out and said, it's a reboot. You can't make it more clear than changing the sex of one of the main characters. I loved that show, why? Because it had freaking good writing (for the most part anyway). Firefly? Awesome show with good writing and freaking good characters I can get behind. What do we have in STD season 1 that we'll remember 10-20-30 years from now?
So yeah, if we see a blond Spock, fantastic if they can write him in that makes good freaking sense. At this point though, because I do not believe writing for STD can be good on consistent level, just leave him out of it. Don't introduce a character if you cannot do him justice and will just butcher him.
Again, one person's perceptions. I saw little-to-nothing objectionable. I guess I'm one of these drooling idiots who will just swallow all the crap without question (even though I barely stomached ENT and VOY upon first-airing, so I really DON'T think I'm that guy).
But after 40 years following the franchise, I think that's my right. Just as its your right to be disappointed in everything.
Here's an idea for Number One:
Anson Mount's former Conviction (a L&O spinoff) costar, Milena Govich.
(She was also on L&O itself for a year.)
Anson Mount's former Conviction (a L&O spinoff) costar, Milena Govich.
(She was also on L&O itself for a year.)
Unfortunately, that is rather true of real life. As much as Star Wars is a space fantasy, there is an element of realism that GL tried to inject in the PT that I think carried through in to the ST. And, as much as it annoys, the EU did a similar thing. It just happened to take longer because books can do that. The end result was the same.
It certainly wouldn't have been my choice, but I see how that plays out. And, it's more interesting to me on some level. On another level, there are only three Star Wars films.
Honestly? It didn't came across as "realistic". But as an over-the-top comically dark deconstruction of a Happy Ending, equally unrealistic as the perfect shining "lived happily ever after" would have been.
The same way I can't fathom the depiction of violence in DIS to be "realistc", when in reality it's just as comically over-the-top in the opposite direction - Quentin Tarantino-like blood splatters, but still no real portrayal of actual violence and the physical and emotional consequences it really would have had....
For Star Wars, I'd have much preferred a more sober, realistic scenario. With wins and losses. Not just extremes to one side of that.
Like having the New Alliance and Empire be in a cold war-like scenario. Have the Alliance be a successfull thing, but the Empire still stronger. Or having Han and Leia's child turn to the dark side, yes, but not their only child, and turn their marriage into a failure as well. It was just...too much. The old heroes should have had at least some successes - not even Obi-Wan and Yoda became THAT defeated and hopeless after "Revenge of the Sith".
Every character and goal was broken to the point that it stopped being tragic and became unintentionally funny again - like watching a cartoony train wreck. It didn't feel like a legitimate "story" that was told, but essentially a never ending sequence of "Hah, gotcha'"-moments the writers tried to create be upending all expectations - but the material became a pure parody of a story in the process. (Again: This wasn't "The Last Jedi"s fault - this was already unchangeable put in place in "Force Awakens". That movie just didn't care about those implications)
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I was just thinking.... why did they bother having Sarek on Discovery. They had no real need for him to do a "ride along". And they know that Sarek and Spock can only have superficial interactions - so if your going to have a meet up with Spock, Sarek aboard complicates what they can and can't do.
His only reason to be on Discovery may be to have a reason for Spock not to come aboard. If Spock were on the Enterprise and just Burnham were on the Discovery - Spock would surely want to say hello and it would be strange for him not to come aboard. But with his father known to be on board - I don't think anyone would find it hard to believe that when Pike got his party together to go over to Discovery that Spock would have made some excuse as to why he should stay on board Enterprise. Then Pike could even have a throw away line that Spock declined to come over to Discovery. The circumstances would make that completely believable.
Were Sarek not on board everyone would have claimed there is no way Spock wouldn't come see his adopted sister and trash the writers (ok - we know a large group will trash the writers anyhow)
His only reason to be on Discovery may be to have a reason for Spock not to come aboard. If Spock were on the Enterprise and just Burnham were on the Discovery - Spock would surely want to say hello and it would be strange for him not to come aboard. But with his father known to be on board - I don't think anyone would find it hard to believe that when Pike got his party together to go over to Discovery that Spock would have made some excuse as to why he should stay on board Enterprise. Then Pike could even have a throw away line that Spock declined to come over to Discovery. The circumstances would make that completely believable.
Were Sarek not on board everyone would have claimed there is no way Spock wouldn't come see his adopted sister and trash the writers (ok - we know a large group will trash the writers anyhow)
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Like having the New Alliance and Empire be in a cold war-like scenario. Have the Alliance be a successfull thing, but the Empire still stronger. Or having Han and Leia's child turn to the dark side, yes, but not their only child, and turn their marriage into a failure as well. It was just...too much. The old heroes should have had at least some successes - not even Obi-Wan and Yoda became THAT defeated and hopeless after "Revenge of the Sith"..[/QUOTE]
I would have preferred that as well, but I'll engage the story as told. I certainly didn't feel as depressed watching TFA or TLJ as I did ROTS, so I'll agree to disagree on the hopelessness.
Again, I didn't get this sense.
The only way I see Pike having extended role is if he takes temporary command of the Discovery because their is an emergency and Discovery has not permanent captain aboard. Maybe a 3-4 episode arch with Pike and maybe one other Enterprise crew member aboard. Maybe Enterprise is damaged and he sends her to space dock with Spock or #1 in command while he uses Discovery to go back after whoever attacked him.
You could even probably find some old Nimoy clips that could be used in conjuction with some CGI to have some brief communication with him on screen.
I would like to see Pike for an extended period.
You could even probably find some old Nimoy clips that could be used in conjuction with some CGI to have some brief communication with him on screen.
I would like to see Pike for an extended period.
There is no references in canon are there that Pike immediately preceeded Kirk as captain of Enterprise. Is there the ability to re-assign Pike to Discovery permanently?
It is 2257 right now in the show - I have seen references that Pike was captain of Enterprise into early 2260's (but is that just speculation). I haven't seen anything say he was captain all the way up to 2265 when Kirk assumed command.
I mean having Pike take command of Discovery kinda makes you not miss Lorca! But he would need a darn good reason to move over to Discovery - - since that's kinda a demotion from Constitution class.
It is 2257 right now in the show - I have seen references that Pike was captain of Enterprise into early 2260's (but is that just speculation). I haven't seen anything say he was captain all the way up to 2265 when Kirk assumed command.
I mean having Pike take command of Discovery kinda makes you not miss Lorca! But he would need a darn good reason to move over to Discovery - - since that's kinda a demotion from Constitution class.
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He might faint when he sees more than one woman on the bridge, he seems pretty sexist for a 23rd century man and with his all white crew..mmmmm
Then he missed his 'History of the Israeli army' classes
Ok - all I could find is Spock entered Starfleet in 2250 and served over 11 years with Pike (I'm not sure where the 2250 entrance into Starfleet comes from). Came aboard enterprise within a few years. But the earliest he could have served with Pike seems to be 2250-2252 (if that is a canon date in any way) and that would put Pike on the Enterprise until 2261-63 at a minimum.
So it seems there is no way he can become permanent captain - maybe acting captain .... heck when they said anthology - multiple captains - never thought they would have captain of the season (new captains - same ship)!
I personally wanted to see #1 take over Discovery .... but being the voice of star trek really makes that complicated to recast. Your not recasting the looks (which is acceptable).... in that case your actually recasting (THE VOICE).
So it seems there is no way he can become permanent captain - maybe acting captain .... heck when they said anthology - multiple captains - never thought they would have captain of the season (new captains - same ship)!
I personally wanted to see #1 take over Discovery .... but being the voice of star trek really makes that complicated to recast. Your not recasting the looks (which is acceptable).... in that case your actually recasting (THE VOICE).
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Amanda said that Sarek and Spock hadn't spoken as "father and son" for 18 years in "Journey to Babel", which is set in 2268. In "The Enterprise Incident", also in 2268, Spock tells the Romulan Commander he's served in Starfleet for 18 years.
So the Enterprise must've been Spock's first assignment out of the Academy in 2254. Going up to Star Trek VI (2293)... that means Spock might have served on the Enterprise for the better part of 40 years! Minus a few breaks.
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