Spoilers Captain Archer's Response in Cogenitor

[Oddish]

So what would you have the Vissians do? You're quite willing to criticize them, but what's your solution to their problem?

I already said what the Vissians should do.
1. Name cogenitors, like any other people.
2. Allow them basic human rights, like education and opportunities for leisure.
3. Treat them with dignity. Are you and your wife getting ice cream sundaes? Give one to the cogenitor as well.

Yes, they have to go from family to family. No, they can't have as much of a part in their children's lives as moms and dads. That is the nature of the species, just as women used to have to raise their kids because they were the food supply. But there was NO REASON why the Vissians couldn't do what I just suggested.

 

[DonIago]

Do you have any basis for knowing what the implications of doing all of those things, presumably as quickly as possible, might have upon their civilization?

Of course you don't, because you were exposed to a handful of them.

 

[Oddish]

Abolishing slavery devastated the southern states' economy. But it needed doing nonetheless.

 

[DonIago]

So it's okay for humans to insist that alien races devastate their economies or possibly worse based on limited exposure to their civilization?

Arguably likely-worse given that slaves weren't essential for people in the American South to have children.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Congratulations. You have just legitimized slavery and oppression. Would you like a Confederate flag to hang on your porch?

Better news: the Vissians were a friendly and affable species. When they heard about the Federation, they would undoubtedly have been interested in joining. And if the Federation charter prohibits caste discrimination, it's probably not very friendly to gender discrimination, either.

Oddish, all of our members have the right to their opinion, and the right to disagree with other members. This is, after all, a discussion board. However, in the above quote that I have bolded, you have stepped over the line, personalizing your disagreement by zeroing in on a poster with inflammatory language that is unacceptable. You've earned a warning for trolling. Comments to PM.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Obviously, enslaving the cogen. wasn't the only problem of Vissian society. During the argument with Archer, one of the Vissian assumed that the people serving food on Enterprise were forced to do so. Why would he think that? It's likely that this is some kind of caste system like the old Bajoran one. I think it was cowardly of Archer not to accept Charles' (I think it was the name the cogen chose to themselves, the Vissian not having the decency of giving them one) request and unfair of him to blame Trip for their suicide.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Rescue" the congenitors.

As close to all of them as possible.

Undeground railroad.

Wait a century.

Claim the vacant planet.

Assimilate their technology and resources.

Victory.

 

[Jayson1]

Make peaceful relations with the Vissians. Perhaps then the treatment of the Cogenitars can be in the hands of diplomats and science experts and not chief engineers. Jason

 

[DonIago]

Build peaceful relations with an alien culture before trying to tell them how they should be "better" than they are? That's crazy talk!

But, for those who disagreed with Archer here, I'm very curious as to how you feel about the Federation-Klingon alliance.

 

[Nyotarules]

Well look what would happen if that happened on Earth.

It took hundreds of years of social reform for humans to start treating the other half needed to carry babies as equals, including the right to an education, own property etc
Imagine if an alien species came along and started treating female humans as equals and putting ideas of a better quality of life in their little ole heads?

 

[Swedish Borg]

It took hundreds of years of social reform for humans to stop treating the other half needed to carry babies as equals, including the right to an education, own property etc
Imagine if an alien species came along and started treating female humans as equals and putting ideas of a better quality of life in their little ole heads?

We still have countries where women are treated like dirt, coincidentally these countries often also criminalize homosexuality and a lot of the things that we take for granted.

 

[DonIago]

If you're going to bring up the "evil often wears a pretty face" argument, I think you should give equal weight to the argument that the majority of Vissian society may be even better than what's presented here. We just don't know, having been exposed to a single ship.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I rather prefer to believe that the Vissians didn't have a way to solve the Cogenitor problem or they would have already done so. That said, there may have been considerable social inertia hindering efforts to even pursue that research.

I believe its fixed.

What we saw here is completely illegal.

Taking a valuable congenitor months away from the homeworld to bang one couple.

It's a sex cruise.

Interstellar space.

No law, no police.

40 couples, and Charles.

Money.

Otherwise its a pill.

They are the after the authentic experience that their grandparents had that only a criminal or a billionaire can now have in these modern pc antislavery times.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How many Congenitors have to commit suicide before you lock them away for their own protection?

Mass suicides protesting for equal rights.

Oh.

Handmaids Tail.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Tachyon Flux, we applaud your enthusiasm in posting! But four posts in a row is considered spamming here. I encourage you to familiarize yourself with our Board Rules, and in future, please don't post more than twice in a row. Give other members a chance to contribute to the discussion. Thanks.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They just haven't figured out the multi-quote function.

 

[KennyB]

They just haven't figured out the multi-quote function.

Took me 10 years.......

 

[Guy Gardener]

My head cannon says that G'Kar and Archer had sex.

Sleeping and working together on top of each other in a bathtub sized bathysphere for three days. it would have been really difficult not to have wound up cuddling at some point.

So non procreative sex is cool.

All sex without a congenitor is non procreative.

 

[Swedish Borg]

They just haven't figured out the multi-quote function.

I can't update my posts, so if I have something more to say, I have no choice but to add a new one.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I can't update my posts, so if I have something more to say, I have no choice but to add a new one.

Multi quote is a button.

Don't publish till you're sure you've finished quoting.

I think you can edit when you get to 50 or a hundred posts.

No big.