Wait? Marvel has retconned the accident that killed Peter parker's parents (and left him in the care of Aunt May and Uncle Ben) to have been staged by Hydra now?
Spoilers Captain America: Civil War - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Ugh! I think it's time for Marvel and Sony to move on from these conspiracy stuff with Peter Parker. I'm not interested in the sub-plot ala his biological parents in The Amazing Spider-Man movies.
T'Challa had a lot more time to calm down between when T'Chaka was killed and when he actually caught Zemo.
Tony also watched his parents murdered in front of him, by one of the guys in that room with him. Sure it was on a video on a screen, but from an emotional standpoint it's not that different.
I see that you're Dutch or else you live in the Netherlands. Maybe I'm confusing this with something else, but don't a lot of Europeans in real life criticize the U.S. for having a sort of cowboy approach to law enforcement?
A+
This movie could not have been better if I had a friggin' Genie.
I was a little surprised Crossbones got crossed off the list so quick but so what?
So. How long before the UN decides the Avengers need to go start moping up some politically questionable leaders so those countries can be in the New World Order?
I wonder how many countries didn't sign the Accords; Latveria, Madripoor, Costa Verde, Symkaria, Malta and other made up countries that the Avengers can operate out of?
This movie could not have been better if I had a friggin' Genie.
I was a little surprised Crossbones got crossed off the list so quick but so what?
So. How long before the UN decides the Avengers need to go start moping up some politically questionable leaders so those countries can be in the New World Order?
I wonder how many countries didn't sign the Accords; Latveria, Madripoor, Costa Verde, Symkaria, Malta and other made up countries that the Avengers can operate out of?
Hmm. One does have to wonder how the Avengers have been constantly crossing airspace boundaries for between 1 and 2 years without at least the authority of S.H.I.E.L.D. Do they just use quinjet cloaking and brush off later legal complaints?
In the comics it was the Red Skull, a revelation which dates to 1968. (But that would be the Albert Malik version, not Johann Schmidt. Incidentally, I never thought of it or heard it mentioned before, but I wonder if the similarity between that name and Gideon Malick's from The Avengers/Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. is purely coincidental or if there was any inspiration or reference there.)
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This. Zemo kicked a psychological hornet's nest with Tony, who hadn't even known his mother had been murdered in cold blood until that moment. Whereas T'Challa had been processing his grief for the entire film while he was going after the wrong guy...and finding out that he had been manipulated into going after the wrong guy probably put things into perspective for him.
Not to take away from T'Challa's moment with Zemo, though, which was very strong.
The Red Skull has whacked them since Amazing Spider-Man Annual 5. Circa 1968.
http://www.marvelmasterworks.com/marvel/mm/spidey/asmann005.html
In 1968, they were not S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents, that wasn't revealed till 1997.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=37144
So, not killed by Hydra.
My brain farted.
The Red Skull was on his own kick, and killed a couple S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents.
Sorry.
If you really want to accept a seriously continuity jiggle, try reading "Trouble". That's the Book that says that May is really Peters mum, but at the time she was too young and irresponsible to look after a baby.
You're welcome.
Malta is a real place. It's even in the EU. Unless you're joking of course and you knew that already.
Not necessarily. Zemo just had to wait for a paramilitary group that contains a Hulk to create enough civilian casualties, that the drafts of the Sokovian Accords, which must have been circulating for months as 193 countries (plus some fake Marvel Countries) lawyers were reading, arguing and amending until it met a level of satisfactoriness that even 117 agreed to sign up publicly, and then fake Bucky's attack on the UN. Zemo had been waiting a year, and maybe he could wait another year before he was compelled to force the situation.
The Avengers were going to kill a lot of civilians eventually, or be there standing near by while a lot of civilians were killed by something they couldn't stop very well.
There was no need to engineer a manufactured disaster, when the Avengers would come up with their own calamity inside the foreseeable future.
But then, how the hell did Steve figure out that Rumlow was Nigeria? Why was Crossbones in Nigeria? If Rumlow works for money, he wouldn't have to be given much cheddar by Zemo to attack in a place and time, to which Captain America has been forewarned of his arrival.
If so, it's possible that Zemo's false intelligence had sponsored several of the Captain's recent outings, that had not clusterfucked into a quagmire worthy of the UN (and the Red Hulk) stepping in.
Rhode Island, OTOH, is just a toll road scam.
I was joking, but I also mentioned it because it was one of the countries that didn't sign off on the SHIELD treaty where SHIELD could operate.
From Agents of SHIELD episode 3 wikipedia: Quinn's announcement of a large deposit of gravitonium in his possession, which he holds in Malta, where S.H.I.E.L.D. has no jurisdiction, and cannot enter officially without violating international law.
Did Zemo have anything to do with the Accords? I thought he was just using that as the best place to frame Bucky to cause Cap to defend him?
From Agents of SHIELD episode 3 wikipedia: Quinn's announcement of a large deposit of gravitonium in his possession, which he holds in Malta, where S.H.I.E.L.D. has no jurisdiction, and cannot enter officially without violating international law.
Did Zemo have anything to do with the Accords? I thought he was just using that as the best place to frame Bucky to cause Cap to defend him?
Yeah. Now, Tony was off the deep-end in this movie; in fact I'd say his actions in this movie sort of "damage" his character (in a "good", dramatic, way) given his behavior. It's hard to really "root" for him during the airport battle because he's just being an off-the-deep-end asshole in the way he talks to his supposed friend, Steve. (Which, I don't think the previous movie did a good job as setting them up as "friends" more than they were co-workers who tolerated and respected one another on some level.) I think by the time he encounters Steve in the Hydra base he's come back a little bit and even in the final scene as he ignores Ross's call he's sort of on track again. But for a good part of the movie he's probably close to the true antagonist in the movie.
But his reaction to watching a video of seeing Bucky kill his parents is hardly something we can fault him for, the loss of his parents is something he's wrestled with his entire adult life and here he watches video of a man murdering them. (Though did he really think they just died in a car accident? Surely when their bodies were found autopsies and such would have revealed they died from being attacked and not from the crash.) He cannot be blamed for reacting with raw emotion towards the man who did this and not think about TWS's brain-washing (which, how much of that did Tony know about at this point?)
So, yeah, Tony was a human being and got mad a person who killed his parents.
Sure, when that happens, then they would have a reason to go rogue. But to object to all oversight on principle seems messed up to me.
In a confined space, Cap has the advantage. But in an open air area like an airport, I give the advantage to the fliers.
I was wondering about that. I can only think that, because it was a HYDRA hit, they manipulated any investigation, likely via SHIELD.
Did Cap seem "over-powered" a bit in this movie? I've never taken for him to be "super-powered" but just "absolutely powered." He's at the peak of human endurance and physical strength and maybe a nudge better. The fastest a person has ran a mile is 3m43s. So, Cap can probably do it in 3m30s. Maybe 3-minutes flat on a good day.
His stamina, endurance and healing are all "peak" too, again giving the movie world a good deal of latitude on what that entails.
But in this movie... Well, see him acting like Superman. The biggest thing for is when he's stopping the helicopter Bucky is trying to escape in. I don't care how strong Cap is, he doesn't weigh more than a helicopter and certainly not more than a helicopter taking off when it's providing enough lift with it's rotor to achieve take-off. But we see Cap run up to the helicopter, grab the skid, and tug it back to the ground. Which.... No. If the helicopter is lifting off the ground a 200lb man isn't going to just tug it back to the ground, he's going with it. Same with when we see cap grabbing on to the skid and rooftop helipad. He's straining, sure, but he's pulling a several-ton heavy helicopter, achieving lift, towards him and preventing it from going away.
That seems a bit strong for Cap who, again, isn't supposed to be strictly "super" powered, and there's not enough hand waving in his abilities to "buy" him the leeway. I mean, strictly, Superman wouldn't be able to "pull" a helicopter to the ground if it's got lift (again, Superman weighs less than a helicopter. He's going with it no matter how strong he is pulling it back to the ground) but there's enough mumbo-jumbo in his powerset it's argued that some aspect of his flight, strength, sun-powered powers allows him to "fix" himself to the ground in order to pull the copter to the ground and prevent it's takeoff. (He's "flying in reverse" in other words.)
Cap? He's a regular, squishy, human. He's a very, very strong human who can do a lot of amazing things, but he's not stronger than a helicopter engine which is moving a several-ton heavy machine and keeping it in the air.
True, but then wouldn't Tony have access to SHIELD's/HYDRA's info after JARVIS broke into the Helicarrier's computer with his little thumb drive, or when Black Widow released the HYDRA files? (Though, I guess ZImo apparently needed Bucky to tell him what happened on that date. But I'm not entirely clear on why that's the case. If the files were too encrypted for him or if they weren't there. If they were too encrypted I'd think JARVIS or FRIDAY could've hacked through them.)
His stamina, endurance and healing are all "peak" too, again giving the movie world a good deal of latitude on what that entails.
But in this movie... Well, see him acting like Superman. The biggest thing for is when he's stopping the helicopter Bucky is trying to escape in. I don't care how strong Cap is, he doesn't weigh more than a helicopter and certainly not more than a helicopter taking off when it's providing enough lift with it's rotor to achieve take-off. But we see Cap run up to the helicopter, grab the skid, and tug it back to the ground. Which.... No. If the helicopter is lifting off the ground a 200lb man isn't going to just tug it back to the ground, he's going with it. Same with when we see cap grabbing on to the skid and rooftop helipad. He's straining, sure, but he's pulling a several-ton heavy helicopter, achieving lift, towards him and preventing it from going away.
That seems a bit strong for Cap who, again, isn't supposed to be strictly "super" powered, and there's not enough hand waving in his abilities to "buy" him the leeway. I mean, strictly, Superman wouldn't be able to "pull" a helicopter to the ground if it's got lift (again, Superman weighs less than a helicopter. He's going with it no matter how strong he is pulling it back to the ground) but there's enough mumbo-jumbo in his powerset it's argued that some aspect of his flight, strength, sun-powered powers allows him to "fix" himself to the ground in order to pull the copter to the ground and prevent it's takeoff. (He's "flying in reverse" in other words.)
Cap? He's a regular, squishy, human. He's a very, very strong human who can do a lot of amazing things, but he's not stronger than a helicopter engine which is moving a several-ton heavy machine and keeping it in the air.
True, but then wouldn't Tony have access to SHIELD's/HYDRA's info after JARVIS broke into the Helicarrier's computer with his little thumb drive, or when Black Widow released the HYDRA files? (Though, I guess ZImo apparently needed Bucky to tell him what happened on that date. But I'm not entirely clear on why that's the case. If the files were too encrypted for him or if they weren't there. If they were too encrypted I'd think JARVIS or FRIDAY could've hacked through them.)
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I thought in that scene the bones were going to pop out of the skin. That dude is ripped. I don't care if it might have been CGI, that was some hardcore muscle.
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