I'll bet he is. He's the Batman of the MCU.
Spoilers Captain America: Civil War - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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If Cap had submitted from the off, Bucky would be dead.
But if Cap and his loyalists had signed the Accords, then how long would it be until they're blocked from an action for obviously stupid reasons, something bad happens directly because of that, and the board denies any responsibility? In real life and in the MCU, I think such an event would be inevitable within the decade.
I acknowledge that conceptually, some oversight is good, but Captain America had a significant point when he noted that the oversight board would be run by people with agendas.
^Far faster than a decade, even in real life. In the MCU, we know for a fact from the movie that it would be less than a day. Every step of the way, the oversight people refused to believe that there was someone else behind the bombing. They issued 'shoot on sight' orders for a man who they knew had been brainwashed on the basis of one fuzzy photograph. And even if everyone agreed to the accords and Bucky was miraculously brought in alive, Zemo would be guaranteed to do something drastic to force a rift in the Avengers, and no one would be there to stop it because no one would accept the fact that he existed.
Remind me... Was the UN blown up before of or after the 117 duly authorized ambassadors signed the treaty? Were they enforcing an unsigned treaty for the rest of the movie? If the bomb went off 20 minutes too late, 20 minutes after the last signature made it pen to paper, then the bomber sucks. If you'd bombed the building before the treaty was ratified, the "world" would have the power to chase you! Does Bucky suck that much? (Yes, Bucky was framed by someone that needed the accords signed, and Bucky hunted, I know.)
It really feels like the papers were signed digitally, with a stamp, and no one actually put pen to paper on the day, so what we saw was pomp and circumstance... They didn't have together to be gathered there as skittles, but they were.
1/2 the countries in the world signed the accords, which means that half the countries in the world didn't.
It really feels like the papers were signed digitally, with a stamp, and no one actually put pen to paper on the day, so what we saw was pomp and circumstance... They didn't have together to be gathered there as skittles, but they were.
1/2 the countries in the world signed the accords, which means that half the countries in the world didn't.
Lines of succession.
After "most" of the Ambassadors died in the bombing, a lot of junior diplomats, and maybe "secretaries" (unlikely but funny, unless we're dealing with a really small embassy populated with just a handfull of staff.) are going to be called in to sign the paper work to see their dead bosses avenged.
From left field (sorry).
Sokovia must have closed down as a country. There is no way that they could have survived what happened in Avengers 2 "financially". There would have been no workforce for a government to utilize to manage the country and care for basic services. Then suddenly every one is a refugee heading for blue sky.
If the UN was given stewardship (by Nick Fury?) of the open, empty wasteland's of Sokovia, that probably seems like exactly what those 117 countries were probably given hastily to sign up to the Sokovia accords, after the last/worst refugees got the hell out.
(Would the refugees be allowed to return if the UN claims this land as their own territory?) Like the US and Russia slicing up Germany, but a 117 participants rather than two.
(As soon was the people got on to that hellicarrier in AV2, the blast zone from that falling city striking the Earth, was going to be like a dozen nukes, right? That going to put a lot of dirt in the air and screw over the weather.)
After "most" of the Ambassadors died in the bombing, a lot of junior diplomats, and maybe "secretaries" (unlikely but funny, unless we're dealing with a really small embassy populated with just a handfull of staff.) are going to be called in to sign the paper work to see their dead bosses avenged.
From left field (sorry).
Sokovia must have closed down as a country. There is no way that they could have survived what happened in Avengers 2 "financially". There would have been no workforce for a government to utilize to manage the country and care for basic services. Then suddenly every one is a refugee heading for blue sky.
If the UN was given stewardship (by Nick Fury?) of the open, empty wasteland's of Sokovia, that probably seems like exactly what those 117 countries were probably given hastily to sign up to the Sokovia accords, after the last/worst refugees got the hell out.
(Would the refugees be allowed to return if the UN claims this land as their own territory?) Like the US and Russia slicing up Germany, but a 117 participants rather than two.
(As soon was the people got on to that hellicarrier in AV2, the blast zone from that falling city striking the Earth, was going to be like a dozen nukes, right? That going to put a lot of dirt in the air and screw over the weather.)
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Slovakia? Its Sokovia. Completely different.
Spelling with me is sorta a crapshoot.
I normally go with "the auto correct wouldn't let me"
Again, T'Challa watched his father die in front of him, and tracked Bucky to the Hydra facility, but he reached a far different conclusion--which was set in motion at the airport fight when Bucky said he was not responsible. T'Cahlla was fueled by revenge and in-your-face tragedy, but he still allowed new information to guide him. Further, you continue to defend Tony's behavior, but it all move past heat of the moment when he continued to fight and threatened to kill Cap.
You're missing the point that his behavior is part of his larger problem seen in the IM and Avengers movies: his will, his motivations and his actions are always right--even to the point of fequently attacking people who are supposed to be friends/allies.
Wanda is no slouch, and she already let the Vision know what she can do to him, not to mention the mind control powers she used on others in AoU.
Then, there's Cap--when the fight with Stark reached the "no surrender" level, Cap more than held his own, causing significant damage to the armor, and ultimately beating Iron Man to the point of uselessness.
I doubt T'Challa investigated anything himself.
Considering the Wakandan versions of the FBI and CIA, hundreds of thousands of assets across the globe, were working the case until they came to the same conclusion Stark did after he stopped trusting cable news.
Considering the Wakandan versions of the FBI and CIA, hundreds of thousands of assets across the globe, were working the case until they came to the same conclusion Stark did after he stopped trusting cable news.
Noted.
The Sokovian Accords only exist because a villain manipulated the US, the UN and Ross into making them exist. Leak that to the press and at least 110 countries are going to withdraw from the Accords overnight, unless why they signed up has nothing to do with Superpowers Registration.
Thor is the son of a king.
Sure, maybe no one on Earth diplomatically recognizes Asgard, but if the US tries to hold Thor, after somehow unimaginably defeating him in a brawl, Odin (unless he's still Loki, or because he's still Loki) is going to start willing American cities to be removed from the map.
Did King T'Challa register?
It's a little hypocritical if the Black Panther is standing beside Iron Man while being completely unregistered, but can you really see King T'Challa removing his clothes and submitting to an anal probe from American Army Doctors, among a number of procedures, as they determined IF the Kings liberty was legally permissible because he hadn't exceeded some arbitrary danger level threshold? Is the UN willing to invade Wakanda to determine the Black Panthers "threat level" and collect genetic samples?
I doubt it too.
Thor is the son of a king.
Sure, maybe no one on Earth diplomatically recognizes Asgard, but if the US tries to hold Thor, after somehow unimaginably defeating him in a brawl, Odin (unless he's still Loki, or because he's still Loki) is going to start willing American cities to be removed from the map.
Did King T'Challa register?
It's a little hypocritical if the Black Panther is standing beside Iron Man while being completely unregistered, but can you really see King T'Challa removing his clothes and submitting to an anal probe from American Army Doctors, among a number of procedures, as they determined IF the Kings liberty was legally permissible because he hadn't exceeded some arbitrary danger level threshold? Is the UN willing to invade Wakanda to determine the Black Panthers "threat level" and collect genetic samples?
I doubt it too.
I've made this mistake countless times. Maybe it was Marvel trolling all of us.
The truth that T'Challa discovered was that Bucky had NOT killed his father. The truth Stark discovered was that Bucky HAD killed his, AND HIS MOTHER. It makes complete sense that T'Challa would calm down after learning the former and that Tony would explode after learning the latter.
The big thing about T"Challa is when he learned who was responsible for his father's death, he didn't kill him when he caught up to him, but instead turned him over. to be prosceuted for his crimes.
After the events of the movie, do you think King T'Challa had Wakanda withdraw from the Sokovia Accords? Especially since he is protecting Cap and Bucky.
After the events of the movie, do you think King T'Challa had Wakanda withdraw from the Sokovia Accords? Especially since he is protecting Cap and Bucky.
They in fact did not know he was brainwashed, considering even Cap though he was just screwed up in the head. And the shoot on sight order probably had to do with not wanting cops getting killed by what they assume is an unhinged assassin who has likely left a considerable pile of corpses in his wake. Hell even Bucky admitted it was a smart move on their part.
Until Zemo activated Bucky's until unknown to everyone but the audience brainwashing programing, nobody even knew Zemo existed. And they didn't really have anything other than their word Zemo was a thing until Zemo wanted them to have it.
This assumes Crossbones and Zemo were connected, I doubt they were.
It makes sense that they would have put Bucky into the high-end containment pod thing for his "cell." But why did they put Zimo in there when he's not super-powered? Shouldn't he have been in a regular cell and even in "The Raft" maybe? I mean, Scarlett Witch is more "worthy" of someone for the high-end containment pod/cell than Zimo. He doesn't need to be restrained all of the time with limited bathroom/dining opportunities.
I also wonder if The Raft had other levels/cells to it. It seems very... "TV-set like" to have this one room with a handful of cells around the perimeter; suggesting a very limited facility and it was just thrown together on a TV-show budget, like the "swing set" on TNG that filled in for a workout room, shuttle bay, cargo bay, or whatever they needed for an episode. I'd think there'd be many floors filled with people needing that level of containment (which shouldn't extend to any of the ones captured except for maybe Scarlet Witch) and what happened to them when Cap infiltrated the prison?
I also wonder if The Raft had other levels/cells to it. It seems very... "TV-set like" to have this one room with a handful of cells around the perimeter; suggesting a very limited facility and it was just thrown together on a TV-show budget, like the "swing set" on TNG that filled in for a workout room, shuttle bay, cargo bay, or whatever they needed for an episode. I'd think there'd be many floors filled with people needing that level of containment (which shouldn't extend to any of the ones captured except for maybe Scarlet Witch) and what happened to them when Cap infiltrated the prison?
Exactly! T'Challa found the real killer--Zemo--and this was not long after the death of his father, yet he did not kill Zemo. Again, T'Challa has just lost his father--very raw, very recent history, and still, he did not kill Zemo. Far different than Stark's relentless attempt to kill both Bucky and eventually, Captain America after watching the tape.
I can see Wakanda remaining a signatory, if only as a means of being in on any decisions or actions taken by any Sokovia Accord supporters among UN members.
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