Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident

[Paul755]

The Hansen's were investigating the Borg 10 years before the Ent-D encountered them.

if at some point they were to retcon that they were undercover S31 agents/scientists…I would buy that.

 

[Mudd]

Even so, I don't mind it's addition or its inclusion. Trek is not lesser for it.

It is, really. It became just a little more trite (kind of hard to do, I know).

 

[The Wormhole]

Now why the El Aurians didn't think to warn the Fed of this...

For shits and giggles, here's a post I wrote back in 2014 speculating on this matter.

When the El Aurians were rescued they may very well have told Starfleet everything they knew about the Borg, but when Starfleet reviewed the facts they likely felt that the Borg are on the opposite end of the galaxy and won't pose a threat any earlier than several decades later, it's not an immediate problem. We got other things to worry about, like maintaining this fragile new peace with the Klingons. Not to mention the Romulans seem up to something.

Or, alternatively, maybe reports of the Borg did stir something among the Starfleet brass who put forward several initiatives to counter them as soon as word first came from the El Aurians in the 2290s. But then years go by and then decades with no contact from the Borg and no evidence that they are sizing up the Federation or even that they exist. Eventually someone's going to realize that there's better things to be devoting resources to. Like cleaning up after the Tomed Incident, dealing with Tholians attacking starbases, war with the Cardassians, peace with the Klingons deteriorating, some mysterious race called the Ferengi who are rumoured to eat people and have destroyed a Federation starship commanded by one of Starfleet's top captains. In light of all this, one can understand why Starfleet and the Federation would downgrade the priority assigned to what is starting to look like a space myth.

 

[Yistaan]

For shits and giggles, here's a post I wrote back in 2014 speculating on this matter.

Or Starfleet did all it could do within the boundaries of a democratic society that has other concerns. For those with familiarity with that other Star franchise, this is why Grand Admiral Thrawn threw his lot in with the Empire instead of the Rebels/Jedi/New Republic. The Empire quickly put together a batch of planet destroying weaponry that stand a realistic chance of killing the Vong or Grysk (depending on if you're following the pre-Disney continuity or the post-Disney one) while the democratic New Republic/Jedi will just twiddle their thumbs and do more of the same (i.e. nothing substantial).

 

[The Wormhole]

Or Starfleet did all it could do within the boundaries of a democratic society that has other concerns. For those with familiarity with that other Star franchise, this is why Grand Admiral Thrawn threw his lot in with the Empire instead of the Rebels/Jedi/New Republic. The Empire quickly put together a batch of planet destroying weaponry that stand a realistic chance of killing the Vong or Grysk (depending on if you're following the pre-Disney continuity or the post-Disney one) while the democratic New Republic/Jedi will just twiddle their thumbs and do more of the same (i.e. nothing substantial).

According to Legends continuity, Thrawn first sided with the Empire because they were the dominant military power. And indeed, many in the Imperial remnant a few decades after ROTJ begin to speculate that if Thrawn were still alive, he would likely have defected to the New Republic because they were now the dominant military power.

 

[Yistaan]

According to Legends continuity, Thrawn first sided with the Empire because they were the dominant military power. And indeed, many in the Imperial remnant a few decades after ROTJ begin to speculate that if Thrawn were still alive, he would likely have defected to the New Republic because they were now the dominant military power.

He had 5 years between ROTJ and the Thrawn Trilogy to tell Luke everything and throw his lot in with the New Republic. He apparently thought rebuilding the Empire and trying to kidnap babies for an insane clone Jedi was a better way to achieve his goals. Although it's possible he was aware of Palpatine's resurrection which would explain his actions (and thus the Empire still being a dominant power in his eyes with Palpatine's hidden fleet in the core worlds)

We'll find out what his excuse is in Disney canon when Ahsoka airs.

 

[The Wormhole]

He had 5 years between ROTJ and the Thrawn Trilogy to tell Luke everything and throw his lot in with the New Republic. He apparently thought rebuilding the Empire and trying to kidnap babies for an insane clone Jedi was a better way to achieve his goals. Although it's possible he was aware of Palpatine's resurrection which would explain his actions (and thus the Empire still being a dominant power in his eyes with Palpatine's hidden fleet in the core worlds)

At that time he felt the Empire wasn't a complete lost cause and thought there was an opportunity to gain personal power. And he tried to remold the Empire into something more in line with his own ethics and morals, of which he realized the Empire was immoral in some regards. IE, he chews out one of his officers who gladly sent troopers into a suicide mission telling him something along the lines of "I do not view the lives of those I command as expendable like Darth Vader did."

 

[Yistaan]

"I do not view the lives of those I command as expendable like Darth Vader did."

Thrawn literally executes Cris Pieterson for making excuses on his inability to capture Luke with a tractor beam in Heir instead of, I don't know, dishonorably discharging him like a normal military commander would?

Canon Thrawn isn't much better. He talks a good game about how he's doing it all for his people (like Vader did it all for Padme), then tried to shoot Bendu in the face in Rebels.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You got Star Wars in my Star Trek!

 

[The Wormhole]

Thrawn literally executes Cris Pieterson for making excuses on his inability to capture Luke with a tractor beam in Heir instead of, I don't know, dishonorably discharging him like a normal military commander would?

And then later on promotes another guy who also failed to capture Luke, since he actually did everything he was trained to. Vader would have executed that guy too.

 

[Yistaan]

since he actually did everything he was trained to. Vader would have executed that guy too.

It's been a while but my recollection was the executed guy simply claimed he wasn't trained to deal with Luke's tractor beam escape trick (and in Thrawn's eyes this counts as making excuses apparently) while the guy who lived, despite also not being trained to deal with that type of situation, later on tried some bizarre Scotty-level engineering gobbledygook that, while it still failed, impressed Thrawn because he values active improvisation and forward thinking.

It's unclear to me whether Vader really would have executed the latter, though you're probably correct he would have. The only really competent officer that Vader outright kills in the movies is Captain Needa.

 

[The Wormhole]

It's been a while but my recollection was the executed guy simply claimed he wasn't trained to deal with Luke's tractor beam escape trick (and in Thrawn's eyes this counts as making excuses apparently)

Not exactly. Thrawn questioned the guy and his immediate supervisor simultaneously. While the guy does say he's inexperienced the supervisor says he fully trained the guy to the same extent that all other personnel under his supervision are trained, Thrawn concluded the problem was the guy who must be incompetent and therefore executes him.

 

[Ovation]

So, umm, Star Trek canon and continuity. Does anyone still argue about that stuff?

 

[The Wormhole]

More productive to tilt at the windmills I should think.

Crap, now I've dragged The Expanse into this!

 

[Noname Given]

According to Legends continuity, Thrawn first sided with the Empire because they were the dominant military power. And indeed, many in the Imperial remnant a few decades after ROTJ begin to speculate that if Thrawn were still alive, he would likely have defected to the New Republic because they were now the dominant military power.

But...but...I thought 'Legends' continuity was Capitain 7of9, Raffi, and Jack Picard on the 1701-G?

 

[fireproof78]

But...but...I thought 'Legends' continuity was Capitain 7of9, Raffi, and Jack Picard on the 1701-G?

I thought it was the USS EXCALIBUR and Captain Calhoun.

 

[Yistaan]

Pelia is stealing works of art across Earth's history to give them to Thrawn so he can use them to figure out how to defeat the Federation.

 

[Tallguy]

More productive to tilt at the windmills I should think.

Crap, now I've dragged The Expanse into this!

You're the sort of person who hears Henry V and thinks Star Trek VI, aren't you?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

For what it's worth, early episodes of TOS showed they had full fledged motion controls (you can see some people swiping in the air or something and functions changed, but they dropped this concept probably because it was too confusing for 1960s audience. Sorry, don't remember the episodes this was featured)

No, that's incorrect. You're referring to a scene in "The Cage" wherein Spock makes a gesture to change the slide displayed on a viewer. There was a crewman obeying that "advance slide" gesture who was simply off-camera. It was not a depiction of a computer scanning a gesture and doing the same.

 

[C.E. Evans]

No, that's incorrect. You're referring to a scene in "The Cage" wherein Spock makes a gesture to change the slide displayed on a viewer. There was a crewman obeying that "advance slide" gesture who was simply off-camera. It was not a depiction of a computer scanning a gesture and doing the same.

For a long time, I too thought that Spock was using motion technology to change the screen image until I saw a BTS photo with the seated crewman at the console a few years ago.