Spoilers Can You Hear Me? grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
I think we have a winner. The resolution wasn't earned. Build up the antagonists so much, make them feel so formidable, than have them defeated so quickly and easily? Not satisfying.
This ep may have handled its worthy message better than Praxeus and Orphan 55, but it still demonstrates how very hard it is to get such a message across and tell a good story, especially when you only have an hour to do it. A challenging balancing act.
I guess the two warring planets did all the hard work building the prison in the first place, the doctor just had to shove them back into it.
Here's the BBC's official statement on the Doctor and Graham situation from Sunday's episode, after they received a couple of compliants
That's exactly how I read that scene and why I loved that moment so much. I'm sorry not everyone didn't see it that way and they took offense to the way The Doctor responded.
Heh, heh! I read what you posted there!
My friend confided in me last night that her Mum's cancer and other medical complications are making it a matter of "how much time does she have?", plus one of her ponies had to be put down. This is the same woman who has had to defer her studies because her lazy twat of a partner can't man up to look after their daughter for two hours a day, while she's expected to drop everything to go watch him do amateur rally driving.
There's not much you can SAY that is going to help, but letting them vent might be enough.
I hope.
Sadly, I don't have anyone to vent at but you guys (no offence, but internet venting doesn't feel right) or the wall. I tried venting to workmates once, but that got tinged with "complaining about friends at work to other friends at work" i.e. could be seen as doing friend A down professionally when I just wanted to talk about issues with one friend to another friend. Don't really have mates outside work, unless the pets count.
Actually, yes, I can. But it worked so well I had to comment!Would you believe it was entirely accidental?
My friend confided in me last night that her Mum's cancer and other medical complications are making it a matter of "how much time does she have?", plus one of her ponies had to be put down. This is the same woman who has had to defer her studies because her lazy twat of a partner can't man up to look after their daughter for two hours a day, while she's expected to drop everything to go watch him do amateur rally driving.
There's not much you can SAY that is going to help, but letting them vent might be enough.
I hope.
Sadly, I don't have anyone to vent at but you guys (no offence, but internet venting doesn't feel right) or the wall. I tried venting to workmates once, but that got tinged with "complaining about friends at work to other friends at work" i.e. could be seen as doing friend A down professionally when I just wanted to talk about issues with one friend to another friend. Don't really have mates outside work, unless the pets count.
You're always welcome to vent here. Or in my inbox.
I think that maybe what people missed. The Doctor did let Graham vent. In fact, there was a moment when he was talking when her whole focused attention was fixed on him. She gave him that time and space. But there isn't anything to say in a situation like that. "Don't worry, it'll never happen" might not be true. "I'm sorry" seems lame. Just listening is all you can do. And acknowledging that there isn't anything you can say can oddly help. That's what the doctor did. I didn't see it as dismissive, I saw her attention, her recognition that sometimes life sucks and there are no magic pills, and her turning Graham back towards life in the present.
It stood in stark contrast in an episode where, as another thread complains, the sonic acts as a catch-all fix for every problem. The human problems are the ones the sonic, the technobabble, even the Tardis itself can't wave over and fix. Don't try. Be there, acknowledge that it hurts. And turn back to life when you can.
I didn't take offense at all. But, I did think it was kind of strange. The Doctor is compassionate. She might be socially awkward. But, compassionate. So, I thought it was out of character to not even attempt something. Not even, I'm here for you?
And, she wasn't socially awkward when it came to calming and reassuring Tahira.
Just felt out of character.
I think it was easier for the Doctor to reassure Tahira about the big bad monsters. When it's something more personal like cancer it might before harder for empathize.
The Doctor's good at reassuring people she can help versus aliens. She isn't going to cure cancer. The Brigadier died while the Doctor was avoiding issues of mortality, remember? Not the way I would like the character to be, but the new series has seized the "leaves others behind and moves on because it's painful" idea.
I wrote a fanfic once where Nine and Rose had to just stay and watch a woman die in a backstreet hospital because she couldn't afford treatment, despite Rose haranguing the Doctor that he could take her to be treated in the TARDIS. Then, when she caught him "sloping off" in the TARDIS between bedside vigils, she really let him have it. It turned out her death was a fixed point - it was the tragedy of her death than led to healthcare reform on that planet. The Doctor had just wanted to ensure that she wasn't alone. But when she mentioned her kids and not being there for them, he used the TARDIS to visit the future and help deliver her 1st grandchild (the new healthcare system was a bit stressed), see off some bullies from harassing her son, help ensure said son didn't slide into crime... and then showed her the scrapbook before she died. As he said as he and Rose left, they couldn't save her, but they could be there for her. And her family.
I wrote a fanfic once where Nine and Rose had to just stay and watch a woman die in a backstreet hospital because she couldn't afford treatment, despite Rose haranguing the Doctor that he could take her to be treated in the TARDIS. Then, when she caught him "sloping off" in the TARDIS between bedside vigils, she really let him have it. It turned out her death was a fixed point - it was the tragedy of her death than led to healthcare reform on that planet. The Doctor had just wanted to ensure that she wasn't alone. But when she mentioned her kids and not being there for them, he used the TARDIS to visit the future and help deliver her 1st grandchild (the new healthcare system was a bit stressed), see off some bullies from harassing her son, help ensure said son didn't slide into crime... and then showed her the scrapbook before she died. As he said as he and Rose left, they couldn't save her, but they could be there for her. And her family.
I have had people I know well react worse than that when I told them.
It's a difficult subject that can bring up complicated feelings.
I had someone just basically get up and leave the room when I told them.
That's awful, and leaves you feeling you have to support and comfort them when you're the one with the problem. If it's an extremely close person (partner for example) they have a right to struggle with it, but everyone else should put their own stuff aside and stay with you. Admit "there's nothing I can say that will help" "I feel at a loss" "I can't even begin to imagine how you feel" or even "I feel really awkward in this situation and can't think of a useful thing to say. But I'm here" and then back it up with "I can listen". And "what can I do to help?"
Thank you, yes it's very strange. I often felt early on that I had to support other people even though I was the one that was ill.
The BBC have made an official statement in regard to the scene at the end.
“When Graham opened up to the Doctor about his fear of his cancer returning her response was never meant to be dismissive. The Doctor’s friend was scared, and we see her struggling to deal with the severity of the situation. The intention of the scene was to acknowledge how hard it can be to deal with conversations on this subject matter. When faced with these situations, people don’t always have the right words to say at the right time, and this can often lead to feelings of guilt. By showing the Doctor struggling to find the right words, the intention was to sympathise with all those who may have found themselves in a similar position.”
“When Graham opened up to the Doctor about his fear of his cancer returning her response was never meant to be dismissive. The Doctor’s friend was scared, and we see her struggling to deal with the severity of the situation. The intention of the scene was to acknowledge how hard it can be to deal with conversations on this subject matter. When faced with these situations, people don’t always have the right words to say at the right time, and this can often lead to feelings of guilt. By showing the Doctor struggling to find the right words, the intention was to sympathise with all those who may have found themselves in a similar position.”
I thought that whole scene was well written, it seemed authentic to me. I think the people complaining possibly don't have any personal experience with cancer and how to approach the subject.
Sometimes you just want to air your feelings and don't want or need a response.
What I find funny is that people complain when the Doctor is perfect but then also complain when she's not.
As someone with a milder degree of Asperger's, it's clear to me that they've decided that the Doctor, in this incarnation at least, falls somewhere on the Autism Spectrum. (Whether that was the right thing to do, is a whole other discussion.)
As someone with a milder degree of Asperger's, it's clear to me that they've decided that the Doctor, in this incarnation at least, falls somewhere on the Autism Spectrum. (Whether that was the right thing to do, is a whole other discussion.)
That’s interesting, I would’ve said that about Capaldi’s Doctor, in particular when he would’ve matter-of-factly told Clara that she was ugly. Of course, I’m not on the spectrum, so your perception is almost certainly more accurate than mine.
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