Spoilers Black Widow grade and discussion thread

[David cgc]

Obligatory link to "The Hawkeye Initiative."

 

[CorporalClegg]

You're labels are backwards.

 

[CaptainWacky]

The cast was the best part, with Florence Pugh and David Harbour being particularly strong and only Ray Winstone and his terrible accent being a bi t weak. Thee's a lot of action and it's all decent, but none of it's particularly memorable. There's a few parts where it seems they stop short on the action, like cutting away from the Red Guardian/Taskmaster fight after a few seconds and just having Yelena gas all the brainwashed widows rather than do something cool to save Natasha. I liked how the villain (despite the character being nothing special) was a proper, gross, human-trafficking bastard and how the film didn't shy away from ickyness of the Black Widow program. The family stuff was sweet. I liked it more than the last movie I saw in the cinema (Rise of Skywalker) but it wasn't one of the top MCU movies. I look forward to seeing Yelena again.

 

[JD]

I can see people getting pissed off at being spoiled on a previous movie. Ant Man and the Wasp, although being a stand alone movie, shows the new Avengers HQ and has Falcon as being a full Avenger. Sure, it is minor but some people really don't like even those spoilers.

Sure, but that's just people who care about the movies before or after, for people who are just Ant-Man and The Wasp, they probably wouldn't get the context beyond how impacts what is happening in that movie right at that moment.

...because the MCU was intentionally set up to be strung together with its numerous Easter eggs and post-credits scenes to hand-hold the viewers into the coming plots. For example, when Fury is introduced at the end of Iron Man talking about the Avengers, or Stark (in The Incredible Hulk) approaches Ross talking about a "team" being put together, they only existed so potential audiences (especially the majority of movie goers who had no awareness of Marvel's comics or character details) would not think The Avengers just dropped out of nowhere within the overall plot without explaining the participation of certain characters. MCU films only work as stand-alone stories if one were to edit the Easter eggs and other teases from its earliest films, so there's no expectation of a more integrated collection of films.

In both of these cases these are fairly minor things that really don't impact the overall story of the movies, and people who don't follow all of this the way we do, they probably wouldn't really care about stuff.
A person can easily watch just Iron Man or The Incredible Hulk without watching the Avengers, and not feel like they have seen an the missed our on anything important. And they could watch the Avengers without any of movies before it. Yes, watching the other movies will give you more backstory and a better understanding of some of the characters and realtionships, but you need to know all of that to follow what is happening in The Avengers.

It was widely reported/rumored that RDJ would make a cameo and he has said in the past he was not adverse to returning, unlike Chris Evans who is done with Captain America.

Here is where the rumor started
https://deadline.com/2019/09/saturn...-jon-favreau-kevin-feige-stan-lee-1202734450/

I read an article the other day, where either the writer or director said that they did consider having him appear earlier in the production process, but I can't remember if it ever made it as far as the script.

 

[Jayson1]

What I liked was how it was kind of grounded except for Black Widow doing a few things that she shouldn't be able to since she doesn't have super powers. It felt like a Phase 1 movie.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What I liked was how it was kind of grounded except for Black Widow doing a few things that she shouldn't be able to since she doesn't have super powers. It felt like a Phase 1 movie.

Uh, that happens in every MCU film.

 

[theenglish]

What I liked was how it was kind of grounded except for Black Widow doing a few things that she shouldn't be able to since she doesn't have super powers. It felt like a Phase 1 movie.

You can easily say the same thing about Batman or Nightwing.

 

[Jayson1]

I don't know. I feel like Batman they did do a good job showing some of the wear and tear on the body in the Nolan movies. I don't recall Be Affleck doing anything to over the top. I mean the same was mostly true with Black Widow but their was a few moments like fighting in the sky that seemed a little much. Didn't hurt the movie or anything but I did notice. Of course I have seen worse. Like people falling from the sky in The Tomorrow War and not dying just because they landed in a pool. Heck I just watched Long Shot recently with Seth Rogan and he falls from a building lands on a car and doesn't die which was really silly.

 

[fireproof78]

Uh, that happens in every MCU film.

Fixed that for you.

 

[theenglish]

Trained skydivers do some pretty incredible things in free fall so I didn't have a problem with that. I did think that some of the physics behind what was happening during free fall was an issue, including how late their chute opened before they hit the ground.

 

[Saul]

What I liked was how it was kind of grounded except for Black Widow doing a few things that she shouldn't be able to since she doesn't have super powers.

I was sorta hoping this movie would explain why she can take so much punishment in these movies. Maybe she had a very lite does of the super serum or something.

I just watched Long Shot recently with Seth Rogan and he falls from a building lands on a car and doesn't die which was really silly.

Remember in The Dark Knight when Batman jumped off the building and landed on a car?

 

[fireproof78]

Not everything needs explanation.

 

[Jayson1]

I think they covered a lot of this ground with the Doctor scene were he is going over the endless damage Bruce did to his body while being Batman. I think it implies that Bruce is kind of like a NFL player in that his body is all fucked up and he has to endure tons of constant pain every time he goes out as Batman. Probably on all sorts of pain meds.

 

[fireproof78]

And it's nice that they imply some things but ultimately will mean little to the story. He will still Batman it up and even old Bruce got up to fighting in other shows.

Obviously this is a suspension of disbelief level for many but for me, personally? The protagonist taking little damage is pretty much par for the course in my forays in films watching.

 

[Jayson1]

I agree suspension of disbelief is important. Heck all Sci fi fans need it due to just how absurd some of the stuff we love is if applying real world logic to it. Still I thought it was a nice touch.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Not everything needs explanation.

You say that, but audiences do not forget that they know the difference between a super-powered character and one who has no powers (or armor) and falls several stories, hitting structures of a building along the way, and still does not turn into a crushed lump of broken bone and flesh when they hit the ground.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

You say that, but audiences do not forget that they know the difference between a super-powered character and one who has no powers (or armor) and falls several stories, hitting structures of a building along the way, and still does not turn into a crushed lump of broken bone and flesh when they hit the ground.

Agreed. Copying and pasting some text from a conversation with a co-worker of mine:

My wife actually asked me after she fell down that entire building hitting stuff, "Does she have super strength?"
I was like, Uh, nooo.....

 

[Jayson1]

They should have given her a broken arm or something during some of that stuff. It still wouldn't make it possible in terms of real life logic but it would help make it still seem somewhat more credible by simply acknowledging how brutal such things are.

 

[fireproof78]

You say that, but audiences do not forget that they know the difference between a super-powered character and one who has no powers (or armor) and falls several stories, hitting structures of a building along the way, and still does not turn into a crushed lump of broken bone and flesh when they hit the ground.

I don't forget it either. I just don't expect real world rules to apply in films.

Broken glass being my chief complaint in any production.

 

[Noname Given]

You say that, but audiences do not forget that they know the difference between a super-powered character and one who has no powers (or armor) and falls several stories, hitting structures of a building along the way, and still does not turn into a crushed lump of broken bone and flesh when they hit the ground.

Tell me what do you have against the character of Batman (or Robin or Batgirl for that matter?)