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Spoilers Black Widow grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Black Widow?


  • Total voters
    65
I really liked the movie. I say it's better than the DisneyPlus shows but somewhere in the middle in terms of the movies. The family dynamics is what really made the movie work. I also really want to see the Red Guardian in other stuff. Maybe even the lead of his own DisneyPlus show. Or bring him onto season 2 of the Captain America and Winter Soldier series. Taskmasker was fine to me. I don't know the character from the comics so I didn't mind her being a robotic like killer. The new Black Widow was fine as well but like with Captain America it is really hard to top the originals even though the replacements are solid.
 
Pretty good, enjoyed it. Still abit meh on the new black widow, (Scarlett is just that good) but I'm open to more of her.

Casting was a bit interesting, why not cast a Russian if your going to have her do an accent all movie? Plenty of actual women in Russia or eastren Europe.. Not British. When do eastren european actors and actresses get to be in big movies like the mcu?
 
I also really want to see the Red Guardian in other stuff. Maybe even the lead of his own DisneyPlus show. Or bring him onto season 2 of the Captain America and Winter Soldier series.

That character does not belong in Captain America 4, as he is completely out of place with the direction and tone of this series, and would only serve as a distraction.
 
But we don't even know the plot of the next Captain America show or movie. If they go with a movie it's likely they will want to inject some more MCU style of humor and won't be as political bent as the show was. I am guessing it will have the same kind of tone as the other Captain America movies or Black Widow.
 
I can see people getting pissed off at being spoiled on a previous movie. Ant Man and the Wasp, although being a stand alone movie, shows the new Avengers HQ and has Falcon as being a full Avenger. Sure, it is minor but some people really don't like even those spoilers.
The Falcon was shown as a full Avenger in the first Ant-Man film. In fact the Falcon and the Scarlet Witch were shown as full Avengers at the end of Avengers Age of Ultron as they were all being trained by Captain America and the Black Widow at the end of the film.
 
The Falcon was shown as a full Avenger in the first Ant-Man film. In fact the Falcon and the Scarlet Witch were shown as full Avengers at the end of Avengers Age of Ultron as they were all being trained by Captain America and the Black Widow at the end of the film.
That was my point. If you hadn't seen AoU then Sam's appearance and the new HQ could be considered a spoiler.
 
That was my point. If you hadn't seen AoU then Sam's appearance and the new HQ could be considered a spoiler.
I actually don't follow that line of reasoning. Captain America was shown as an Avenger in The Avengers, and Sam definitely became his sidekick in Captain America: The Winter Soldier; so if someone had at least seen that film, The Falcon's appearance in Ant-Man, during which he states that he never wants Cap to find out about his encounter with Ant-Man at the Avengers compound; could be considered a logical progression from Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and if you'd never seen any MCU film other than Ant-Man, The Falcon is just another superhero, who's protecting a piece of equipment that Hank Pym needs.

So no it's really not a spoiler for anything per se, it's just a story beat and an Easter egg for anyone who has seen one or more of the other films featuring The Falcon.
 
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All I was doing was thinking of reasons why people felt like the MCU was too interconnected-- I agree with you that it was a simple Easter Egg.
 
Huh, I never heard that rumor. It would've made much more sense for a surprise Steve Rogers cameo (and for the briefest of moments, I thought we were going to get it).
It was widely reported/rumored that RDJ would make a cameo and he has said in the past he was not adverse to returning, unlike Chris Evans who is done with Captain America.

Here is where the rumor started
Downey will be seen in the role of Stark one more time, however, in the Marvel prequel Black Widow in May 2020.
https://deadline.com/2019/09/saturn...-jon-favreau-kevin-feige-stan-lee-1202734450/
 
I still love the scene in Avengers: Age of Ultron, where Steve Rogers steps up to try his hand at lifting Thor's hammer, and when it budges just a little, you see a worried look on Thor's face.:lol:

Yeah that was cool on multiple levels - the shock and surprise on Thor's face when the hammer made that millimetre move ( that hammer would have kept Hulk in rage mode pinned to the ground) and, after Endgame we know this, the utter decency of Steve not to actually lift Mjolnir, when he realized he could to spare Thor the humiliation in front of everybody.

Still would have liked to see Natasha try :lol: I loved the scene and party in general with the whole team relaxing and not fighting or preparing to go to a fight, one of the best scenes in that movie.
 
It was widely reported/rumored that RDJ would make a cameo and he has said in the past he was not adverse to returning, unlike Chris Evans who is done with Captain America.

Here is where the rumor started
https://deadline.com/2019/09/saturn...-jon-favreau-kevin-feige-stan-lee-1202734450/

Yes, and even on the homepage of my favourite movie-theatre Downey's still written in the credits, IMDB also carried that rumour for a long time, it's only in the last year or so that this credit-rumour was removed from Downey's page there...

I also really want to see the Red Guardian in other stuff. Maybe even the lead of his own DisneyPlus show. Or bring him onto season 2 of the Captain America and Winter Soldier series.

Oh, please don't. First of all, we already had a past supersoldier in Falcon and the WS (in a much more serious role)... and what would be the point? Steve Rogers is gone. I thought the character was ridiculous, like they didn't know what to do with him. Either portray him seriously, like as a spy who somehow delivers girls to the Red Room, or turn him into comedic relief, you can't do both. I realize this movie should highlight women, but that doesn't prevent you from giving male characters some kind of background. Therefore, I really hope this is the first and last we'll see of him.

And, it's not just a matter of understanding but also engagement with the characters. By Civil War I really couldn't care less about Tony Stark. All of it becomes too long to appreciate the inteconnectiveness that obviously takes a lot of work..

Interesting - by CW I really couldn't care less about Steve Rogers... There's no character-growth (rather a decline from the first CA-movie onward), stagnant worldviews and illusions of grandeur (that were fed by the Captain America image and Erskine). The way he can seriously think his hands are the best to make decisions that involve the whole world, that could lead to war etc is simply ridiculous. And it should have been addressed within the movies and F&theWS that the serum enhances not only good traits but bad ones as well (as it does with Walker)... fighting bullies by becoming one, distrusting everyone, being stubborn and not able to actually listen for once. When did we ever see Steve listen to someone or go into any discussion with an open mind? He surrounds himself with yay-sayers (Sam only grows a backbone after Steve's gone), portrays himself as the protector of people (Wanda... no matter her past or her setting the Hulk loose on innocents... she's a bully but he's blind to it) etc.

But returning to the topic of the MCU being too wide-spread... Hm... actually what movies do you really need to watch before CW? TWS, Age of Ultron and Iron Man (about accountability and where Tony's coming from)... that's it. And those movies are in the essential to the MCU-category anyway.

I think you could watch most movies individually... if a certain plotthread or character whetted your appetite you can still watch "his or her movie" later on. You don't have to watch them chronologically except for like Endgame - there I'd recommend you first watch Infinity War. ;)

You can watch this a year later or 10 years later, it has no significance in the MCU unless filling in backstory or developing new characters are something you feel you need to see now.
If this had been before she joined Avengers I might have found it interesting. Make taskmaster Hawkeye. See how she became a better person.

That's exactly my issue with this movie. It's irrelevant, even the ending is a cop-out not showing how Natasha escaped/was not arrested. Why even set it immediately post-CW, why not immediately post-WS (when Natasha's SHIELD "family" imploded and Hydra was revealed)? This movie doesn't offer any character-growth for Natasha at all. I'd have preferred a movie that shows the events of Budapest, the setup, maybe her doubts about "killing" a child etc, that shows how she earns Hawkeye and Coulson's trust (and I'd have loooooved to see Coulson!!). It's not as though the movie itself would have had to be changed that much, the characters were all there back then as well - but it would have been an important moment in Natasha's history, in her character-development. Instead she's but a side-note to introduce other characters. And that's simply unworthy of being her last appearance within the MCU.
 
But we don't even know the plot of the next Captain America show or movie.

Malcolm Spellman--the writer behind Captain America and the Winter Soldier--is writing CA4, and one can assume he's bringing the his same creative direction and sensibilities to that project, as its a direct follow-up to the TV series. That said, having some sloppy comic relief would not fit into the world established by the series, including potential antagonists (Valentina / U.S. Agent / Sharon Carter). The Cap world need not trip into a silly territory it never explored before.

Oh, please don't. First of all, we already had a past supersoldier in Falcon and the WS (in a much more serious role)... and what would be the point? Steve Rogers is gone. I thought the character was ridiculous, like they didn't know what to do with him. Either portray him seriously, like as a spy who somehow delivers girls to the Red Room, or turn him into comedic relief, you can't do both. I realize this movie should highlight women, but that doesn't prevent you from giving male characters some kind of background. Therefore, I really hope this is the first and last we'll see of him.

Agreed on all points.
 
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The Cap world need not trip into a silly territory it never explored before.

It worked perfectly for Thor, so we can't say there's not precedent for taking this route.
Though at the same time, you could easily argue what works for one doesn't mean it can work for all.
 
I think you could watch most movies individually... if a certain plotthread or character whetted your appetite you can still watch "his or her movie" later on. You don't have to watch them chronologically except for like Endgame - there I'd recommend you first watch Infinity War. ;)
Well, I didn't do that.

Also, it's not just chronological order but adding so many elements that I just don't care for. Thanos being the chief one.
 
Well, I didn't do that.

Also, it's not just chronological order but adding so many elements that I just don't care for. Thanos being the chief one.

If the negatives outweigh the positives (I could be wrong but it seems to be that way) why go back to them knowing that you're more than likely not going to care for them any more? Especially there isn't that comic/nostalgia pull and thrill, either.
 
If the negatives outweigh the positives (I could be wrong but it seems to be that way) why go back to them knowing that you're more than likely not going to care for them any more? Especially there isn't that comic/nostalgia pull and thrill, either.
Because this film is unconnected.
 
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