Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS*****

[Stevil2001]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Strangers from the Sky refers to "Sol IX, the one the humans called Pluto", so by the 2050s it was apparently back to being a planet.

 

[Rosalind]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

nope, it's because when it was written Pluto was a planet.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Yes but it is unlikely that the total belt mass is greater than 1 Earth mass.

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Anyway, forget Pluto-- the real question is why doesn't President Bacco even mention this crisis in Articles of the Federation?

Was she on the ranch that weekend?

 

[CaptainDonovin]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

She was at a ball game. The Pioneers were playing a double header against the Green Sox and that's good for them. Had they been playing the New Detroit Tigers the Pioneers would have been swept.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Steve Mollmann said:
Anyway, forget Pluto-- the real question is why doesn't President Bacco even mention this crisis in Articles of the Federation?

Was she on the ranch that weekend?

The sections of AotF tended to be 2-3 months apart from each other; presumably BD took place in between two of the sections.

 

[J47]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Just finished the novel. An absolutely fantastic and riveting read - I ended up canceling plans so I could finish it. I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who picked up on PAD's character assassinations. While T'Lana and Leybenzon at least approximated their previous characterizations, every time Kadohata was mentioned in conjunction with the mutiny I found myself screaming that the person introduced in Q & A would have needed a hell of a lot more justification than feeling like an outsider - especially since it seemed like she didn't feel like one in her previous outing. I understand that the three novels were essentially written at the same time, but this was quite sloppy on the editor's behalf. Mind you, it's not like I particularly like ANY of the newbies, but it was still far and away my biggest issue with the novel.

PAD crafted a Borg that genuinely felt like a threat (especially once it became apparent that Ms Janeway probably wasn't going to make it out intact), much more so than Dillard's ill-advised attempt; absorption was equal parts terrifying and cool.

The Nechayev/Jellico scenes were enjoyable through and through, though Pluto's unceremonious end was disappointing.

Oh, and "My foot is asleep" is the new "Assimilate This!," or at least it should be.

 

[sithlord]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

I just finished a marathon session with the last 250 pages. I could not put the book down! An incredible page turner, I wasn't expecting this to be the sequel to Vendetta!!! I got a little choked up when Janeway saved Seven and broke open the fire wall.

The mutiny was interesting, but was out of touch with the characterizations in Q and A, except for T'Lana. PAD seemed to pick up on aspects of her character that weren't said in the previous books, but were there under the surface. Since Resistance, she's been absolutely convinced she's right in all things. But, Kahodata and Leybenzon... it makes me wonder if PAD went his own way with them. Granted, the plan to resurrect the doomsday machine was reaching, but seeing the futility of attacking the cube should have informed the crew they had absolutley no chance!

In any case, a much better read than Resistance and I hope Janeway stays dead!

 

[CaptainGold]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

I enjoyed the book a lot as well, but I don't see the three officers as being as much out of character as others.

The security chief is in over his head at times, that is why he keeps acting like an idiot when the pressure is on. And to me, it is because he was promoted to the top post too fast after the previous chiefs caught "redshirt disease" in previous books. IMO Worf would have been the same way if he became security chief after TNG I without years of previous experience as an officer beforehand. He will either grow up quickly, or erase himself, and Worf, who was the guy who put him there, will be the one the break him or shove him out an airlock.

The Vulcan reminds me of the Vulcan leadership of Archer's time, and her background before being picked by Picard would IMO reinforce her Vulcan pre-judging of humans. In short, to me her reactions were exactly what she was, and Picard has to take the blame for a bad appointment.

The Second officer right now isn't up to the job. She worked with Data, but she was never in the inner circle to gain the experience she needed to know when to stand up to Picard, and when to be a loyal officer to her captain. In short, she needs broken into her post, which leads to the old saw of Trek crews, even in TOS. Not breaking up the team will cause a lot of problems when the close-knit crew leaves. You saw it in TOS when Sulu left for good, and now you see it on the E.

That to me is good work by the authors of the recent TNG books, and to their credit. I may not totally like where they went, but they did a great job getting there.

The only thing I was somewhat disappointed in is the escape of the Einstein. IMO, in a situation like that is why Starfleet Command has tons of Operations officers. Some Commander or Captain in the hierarchy would be yelling in the Admirals' ear, "what about the Einstein?" And someone would be sending our warnings about a Borgified Science vessel. that is too big a loose end to let go, and not a good way to keep the Borg threat alive. they should have just let the Borg die, and develop a new super villain for the Federation.

Overall, congrats to Mr. David on an excellent read.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Hartzilla2007 said:
Its strting to sound like Destiny is the Infinite/Final Crisis of the Trek Lit Universe.

Hmm. I am I the only one to think it's a bit odd that "Destiny" is set to be released at about the same time as the next movie — a movie that's rumored to be something of a "soft" reboot of Star Trek.

Gatekeeper

 

[Trent Roman]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

^ I don't see it. For one thing, different time periods. For another, it seems to be challenging enough just to get film novelizations out alongside the film itself; I can't imagine the logistics of scheduling such a large-scale and intricate trilogy to coincide with a theatrical release.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Sci]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Steve Mollmann said:
Anyway, forget Pluto-- the real question is why doesn't President Bacco even mention this crisis in Articles of the Federation?

I think that's a valid question. This was a major, major crisis, and while it's reasonable that it not be depicted in Articles, the idea that it wouldn't be referenced by the characters almost constantly seems rather a bit hard to swallow. We're talking the closest Earth has ever come to being destroyed, frankly.

Christopher said:
The sections of AotF tended to be 2-3 months apart from each other; presumably BD took place in between two of the sections.

Do we know which sections Before Dishonor takes place between?

One thing that struck me as being odd was that, in the midst of all the high-level operations in the Bunker, Starfleet was referred to as taking orders from the full Federation Council. This strikes me as odd -- usually a legislature, especially a large one, can never come to a consensus for operation during an emergency. One would think that President Bacco would be unilaterally issuing orders to Starfleet and that the Council would be evacuated from the Sol system -- yet President Bacco is never even mentioned in Before Dishonor. It came across as being especially odd that the Federation would send Ambassador Fox to attempt to negotiate -- Bacco does not strike me as being stupid enough to try to negotiate with the Borg. (For that matter, Fox came across as being ridiculously stupid in his belief in the trusthworthiness of the Borg.)

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

And in his inclination to quote Neville Chamberlain.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Sci said:

Christopher said:
The sections of AotF tended to be 2-3 months apart from each other; presumably BD took place in between two of the sections.

Do we know which sections Before Dishonor takes place between?

Well, for the purposes of writing Greater Than the Sum, I assumed that BD took place in June, between parts 3 and 4 of AotF. It couldn't be any earlier, because in Bacco's Academy commencement speech at the end of the May section, she said this Academy class had made it through their entire four-year term without the UFP being at war. I'd say a recent Borg invasion would've precluded saying such a thing.

It remains to be seen whether that survives the editorial process on GTTS, though. Other factors might come into play. But it is my hope that GTTS will clarify some things about how the previous post-NEM TNG novels fit together with each other, with AotF, with the VGR Relaunch, etc.

 

[Sci]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Christopher said:

Sci said:

Christopher said:
The sections of AotF tended to be 2-3 months apart from each other; presumably BD took place in between two of the sections.

Do we know which sections Before Dishonor takes place between?

Well, for the purposes of writing Greater Than the Sum, I assumed that BD took place in June, between parts 3 and 4 of AotF. It couldn't be any earlier, because in Bacco's Academy commencement speech at the end of the May section, she said this Academy class had made it through their entire four-year term without the UFP being at war. I'd say a recent Borg invasion would've precluded saying such a thing.

True. To be fair, though, that was always a bit of a continuity error, since New Frontier had established that between the end of the Dominion War and NEM, there was the brief Selelvian War.

It remains to be seen whether that survives the editorial process on GTTS, though. Other factors might come into play. But it is my hope that GTTS will clarify some things about how the previous post-NEM TNG novels fit together with each other, with AotF, with the VGR Relaunch, etc.

Awesome. I'm really interested in this now.. Thanks!

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

As much as I like Peter David's writing and specifically his writing Star Trek, I think I like him the best when he's writing New Frontier and pretty much has full reign and knowledge instead of TNG where he's maybe been out of the loop for awhile.

I know the books only have to jive with onscreen material, but it would've been nice to have the new charcters mesh up with their characterizations from Q&A a lot more than they did in Before Dishonor.

Star Trek's always been about the characters for me more than anything else. It was really the lowest point of an otherwise fun and entertaining read.

I'm hoping that at the very least the differences between the characterizations in Q&A and Before Dishonor will be smoothed over or explained a bit more from here on out. (Hopefully they're not Skrulls...)

I really liked Kadohata and Leybenzon until they became totally different people.

Didn't Worf request Leybenzon in the first place? It seems odd now after the way they interacted in Before Dishonor, but I thought I read something about that in Q&A. Someone mind refreshing my memory on this.

Thanks.

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Yes, Worf became acquainted with Leybenzon during the Dominion War.

 

[Steve Roby]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Technobuilder said:
As much as I like Peter David's writing and specifically his writing Star Trek, I think I like him the best when he's writing New Frontier and pretty much has full reign and knowledge instead of TNG where he's maybe been out of the loop for awhile.

I know the books only have to jive with onscreen material, but it would've been nice to have the new charcters mesh up with their characterizations from Q&A a lot more than they did in Before Dishonor.

First, the nitpicks: it's full rein, not full reign (yes, 65,000 google hits can be wrong), and it's jibe, not jive. Nitpicking aside, yeah, I think it shows that PAD's not used to writing Trek that isn't NF. Being consistent with characterization established by other writers hasn't been his strong point in quite some time. Previous cases in point: Lefler and Jellico.

 

[Sxottlan]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

I didn't even much care for the new crew members in Q&A (found them real boring), so by this turn in Before Dishonor, I really didn't like them.

 

[J47]

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

Steve Roby said:

Technobuilder said:
As much as I like Peter David's writing and specifically his writing Star Trek, I think I like him the best when he's writing New Frontier and pretty much has full reign and knowledge instead of TNG where he's maybe been out of the loop for awhile.

I know the books only have to jive with onscreen material, but it would've been nice to have the new charcters mesh up with their characterizations from Q&A a lot more than they did in Before Dishonor.

First, the nitpicks: it's full rein, not full reign (yes, 65,000 google hits can be wrong), and it's jibe, not jive. Nitpicking aside, yeah, I think it shows that PAD's not used to writing Trek that isn't NF. Being consistent with characterization established by other writers hasn't been his strong point in quite some time. Previous cases in point: Lefler and Jellico.

Honestly though, it's not *entirely* his fault. Judging by the release dates, this would have to have been written pretty much in tandem with Q&A. This would preclude a complete manuscript from being available to him, so I'd be inclined to say this falls squarely on the editor's (I want to say Margaret Clark, but I'm not 100%) shoulders.