Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS*****

Just finished and holy crap was my thought at the end of this one. Q&A was a great book to read between Resistance and Before Dishonor just for it's somewhat light heartedness (with regards to Q and his antics anyway). Before Dishonor is far more serious and at times seemed dark. As I started reading it I was thinking there was a lot of Janeway here but it set things up fairly well, as Peter David has a knack for doing.

I liked this new action the Borg were taking, made them more dangerous and scary for that matter. Not sure what’s worse, assimilation or absorption but I think I’ll avoid both to be safe. Janeway becoming the Queen was both a surprise (since I had no idea what to expect from this book) and expected given her dealings with the Borg. I was taken a bit by the actions of the new crew members during the crisis in their taking command of the ship and wonder how Picard will be able to trust them – I guess we’ll see, especially with Leybenzon. The addition of Spock to the story was nice, always good to see him around because let’s face it, there has been a lack of anything Spock related recently (I had to go there ).

I was glad to see during the rush back to Earth Peter could find something for Mackenzie Calhoun to do, you can’t have enough of him if you ask me. The Planet Killer was also a nice touch, another link to TOS. There were a few nods to various series, TV or book which was also nice. I will say when I saw the name Lucius Fox I was expecting to see Bruce Wayne somewhere but that is just the wish of a Batman fan. I found myself wondering why the character of Grim Vargo kept appearing but I figured he would figure into the finale somewhere. A somewhat interesting secondary character. I also saw a few things show up more than once, the refrence to religion popped up a few times as did Destiny, written once in italics which had me wonder where this was all leading and if both had anything to do with what was to come.

All in all I liked this, will read it again in case I missed anything which is not far out of the realm of possibility. I will say I don't think we've seen the last of Janeway and I don't want to know. Killing Chewie was final, you knew he was gone (different universe character used as an example). This to me was left open a bit for a return.

Can't wait to see what everyone else thought. Should be - facinating

 

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

The Borg absorption was interesting at first, and pretty creepy when it happened to Janeway, but it got old fast. "Look, they ate a starship!" "Look, they ate a bunch of starships!" "Look, they ate Pluto!" The writing wasn't involving enough to make me care that these things were happening.

Grim Vargo bored me silly; he felt like a hollow echo of Han Solo. Actually, all the characters felt hollow; tools of the plot and sources for PAD's (increasingly tired) witticisms rather than distinct personalities.

I'm fully expecting Janeway to return in Destiny. I hope so, at any rate, because the shallow and perfunctory treatment she received in the post-Nemesis TNG fiction was no kind of swan song.

Generally I've felt that the recent TNG novels have tried to hard to be EPIC STAR TREK!- Borg and Romulans and Q and Picard/Crusher at last and the end of the universe and Janeway dies and the Borg ate Pluto. This doesn't do much for me. For one thing, I got enough 'epic' TNG out of the four movies; for another, I find the novel as a form ill-suited to this sort of thing. Anyway, I think the events of these books will inspire a major reaction from Lit fandom, and much of it will doubtless be positive, so in that regard the fiction is doing its job.

 

Re: Before Dishonor -- comments & opinions ****SPOILERS****

I actually thought about Han Solo when reading that at first but since he never joined the fight my linking the two didn't last too long. Forgot to mention Pluto, I like that planet (and will continue to call it a planet) and was sad to see it gone but where did the fourth moon come from? I'm thinking New Horizons will find this one in 2015.

I happen to like where the books are heading, new territory and bigger stories. I liked the novels that we had before where the crews visited somewhere during the TV missions but I think that Trek has come to an interesting time since Nemesis and that needs exploring. The only character I dislike is T'Lana, though I did find the new crew vs. the old a bit too much at times. Thought this was a good read.

 

"Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Everyone:

I picked up "Before Dishonor" on Saturday afternoon and finished reading it early Sunday morning. It's a *rare* book that can hold my attention like that, and Peter David is to be commended for his authorship, along with those who helped him with "Before Dishonor." Y'all deserve a pat on the back.

Some specific observations:

1. I, too, immediately envisioned a Han Solo-like figure when Grim Vargo entered the novel. Still, that's not necessarily a strike against Peter because, for goodness' sake, it's not like George Lucas was the first creative type to breathe life into a lovable rogue-like figure when he conceived of Solo.

2. I was pleasantly surprised to see references to Peter's "Vendetta" novel in "Before Dishonor." God, it's been *ages* since I read "Vendetta," and seeing the names of Reannon and Delcara really brought back some memories of that time period in my life (I was in college, and shall go no further with the details ... ). Seeing the "prototype" planet killer in action, along with its multitude of psychotic voices, was a nice flashback of sorts, too.

3. I had mixed feelings on the crew's mutiny against Picard, et al. On one hand, I could see them acting as they did because, well, it was Earth that was once again in the crosshairs of the Borg. Earth, the cradle world of humanity. I mean, to see your homeworld facing destruction ... well, it's heart-wrenching. So, I could identify with them to a degree.

OTOH, I absolutely *despised* the mutineers, especially that SOB Leybenzon. OK, so Earth is being threatened. You idiots (speaking of the mutineers, here) also noticed that the Borg supercube was blowing apart and absorbing *everything* Starfleet threw at it with ease, correct? And, if that wasn't enough, surely you saw Pluto and its moons get absorbed, right? Now, I don't know about you, but what could the USS Enterprise-E accomplish by rushing headlong back to Sector 001?! Oh, goodie! One more ship for the cube to absorb after maybe 15 to 30 seconds of glorious (and fruitless) battle!

Oh, but the Borg said they'd leave Sector 001 alone if we simply hand over Picard and Seven! Oh, for heaven's sake, my dear mutineers! Just how green are you?! Surely you must know that the Borg don't make (long-term) deals? Didn't the academy impart the lessons of "Scorpion" onto the minds of its impressionable cadets and recent graduates?! Didn't the hellacious war against the freaking Dominion teach you good folk a lesson or two when it comes to "dividing and conquering" your enemies?! Heck, are you mutineers even really veterans of the Dominion War? Goodness! The Founders and their minions were masters at dividing and conquering! And yet here you are, seemingly falling for a Borg ploy and racing back to Earth on the orders of two admirals who probably know damn well in their hearts that giving Picard and Seven to the Borg won't change a thing!

*cough* Well, I could go on and on about the mutiny, but I won't. Suffice to say, I really don't like Leybenzon *or* T'Lana now. In fact, a dark part of me was hoping they'd get their buttocks absorbed by the Borg. They'd make perfect little drones! (On an end note, the characterization of Leybenzon in "Q&A" seems a bit different from "Dishonor" — wasn't he a rebellious, anti-authority type in the former? You'd think he'd back Picard's actions, especially after seeing how the Borg made mincemeat out of anything Starfleet tried to do to stop them.)

4. I know it ain't right, but I could only shake me head and give a cruel little laugh when diplomat Lucius Fox and his entourage were vaporized by the Borg. "There will be ... peace in our time." A-ha! So said an infamous British PM in the 1930s — Neville Chamberlain — and looked what happened then!

5. Well, I guess the debate about whether Pluto is a planet or not is a moot point by the end of "Before Dishonor."

Overall, "Before Dishonor" is definitely a good book, and well worth one's time and money, IMO. No, it's not literature in the ponderous, classical sense of the word, I suppose, but it sure as hell is an entertaining read nonetheless!

Gatekeeper (who enjoyed this more than "My Antonia")

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Janeway's gonna die? How bold of the writer. :-)

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

At first I want to thank everyone here for the comments. Wow, I can`t wait to get this book!

Janeway dies? That is a surprise but on the other hand, maybe it is ironic that PAD wrote this because he made clear more than once that he is no Voyager fan, to put it mildly. I am now even more curious how he will write Janeway`s and Seven`s parts.

The mutiny – hm, we will see. I liked the introduction of Leybenzon and I am hoping that I will be able to also like him in future. It should be interesting to find out.

Great – I was hoping that Calhoun would get a small part in this book! Hm, maybe that NF bit will be the lead-in to the next NF novel, whenever it comes out?

Now I am hoping that the postman delivers my package!

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

I think TNG did "epic" better on the TV screen than it did in the movies. They tried for epic in the movies but never really pulled it off, as far as I'm concerned. Other than that, the more I think about the book, the more I agree with your criticisms -- but it's still a fast and exciting story with smoother prose than some of the New Frontier books.

You won't recognize Leybenzon. KRAD wrote about a character by that name. PAD wrote about a no-dimensional sock puppet who just reacts stupidly and overemotionally to everything. He didn't get T'Lana right, either, imho.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Wow, now I know I have to read this book. Well, I was going anyway, but now I am even more exited for it after reading these reviews. I'm very curious to see how these things you guys are discussing come about.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

I agree. The single quotes around the word epic were my way of indicating that the movies didn't get it right either as far as I was concerned.

If this had been the character's first appearance, I think I would have liked his T'Lana a lot. The scene between her and Spock in the lounge was a high point of the book for me, and one of the reasons I'm not complaining about Spock's rather gratuitous presence in this novel. But the discontinuity between Resistance T'Lana and Before Dishonor T'Lana is striking, given that the two situations are basically identical.

I didn't mean to imply that Grim Vargo was a ripoff of Han Solo or anything like that; obviously there's a long tradition from which both are drawn. I was just looking for the easiest way to express the stock nature of the character.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Honestly, my only criticism of the book is that the characters of Kadohata, Leybenzon, & T'Lana seemed to be totally different to the characters I met in Q&A.

What happened? Did PAD not get to read some notes on the characters or something?

Don't get me wrong. I liked the book, but the mischaracterizations of the three new crew members was jarring and frankly a little hard to stomach.

Ball Dropped in that regard, but I'm guessing that coordinating the personalities of characters that haven't really been explored before the books immediately preceding yours would be difficult on the best of days.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

La, la, la, la, la...skipping past the comments...Before Dishonor not out here in my neck of the woods yet (Chicagoland)...hopefully tomorrow. Loved Q&A and all the TNG relaunch books so far. I promised Donovin not to read the spoilers (we're good friends), so holding up my end of the bargain.

Do read his in-progress novel in the fiction section: great stuff!

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

^ Actually it is no longer there, haven't updated it do to health reasons taking more of my thoughts which has led to a bit of a rewrite of some of it. It will return soon, and now we return to the novel at hand and the question that now comes to mind as I begin to reread the book: What will happen to the Q (I refer to chapter 8 and the encounter between Lady Q and the Queen).

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Honestly, if they haven't been able to assimilate a Founder yet, I'm sure it'll take them a while to assimilate a Q.

Also, the Borg have a way of biting off more than they can chew.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Like they did with Species 8472.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Exactly.

Threats aside, I think it'll be a few eons before they're anywhere close. If then.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

^^I don't think the Borg ever would get close to assimilating the Q. For all their claims about improving themselves toward perfection, what they're really about is forcing everyone else to fit into the Borg's own pre-existing, narrow ideas of perfection. They aren't growing or evolving, just consolidating their dogma. "Distinctiveness" is only added if it's deemed "relevant" according to their predefined standards.

So within the Trekkish paradigm of intelligent life evolving toward "higher" forms with superior powers, the Borg are an evolutionary dead end, doomed to remain stagnant and limited while other species grow beyond their level.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

I just bought the book yesterday and I'm already on Chapter 7 and I have to say its good so far. I can't believe that Janeway got assimilated for real this time. I just can't wait to see what else happens. I'm not trying to read the spoilers in here but I thought I would post what I thought so far. It's actually good to see all of the different characters so far and lead up to the Enterprise.

I'm actually kind of surprised that Seven is teaching at the Academy but that was suspected in a way. I figured she would end up there, since she wouldn't have nothing else to do.

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Mutiny??This would never have happened on Maddens' watch!

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Given that perspective, I'm a bit suprised that the Q haven't just decided that the Borg are somewhat dull and unintersting and erased them from existence. Unless the Q are unable to.....

 

Re: "Before Dishonor" — A Darn Good Read!

Don't be silly. When have we ever seen a Starfleet officer wearing a watch?

I get the sense that most of the Q prefer not to interfere in the free will of mortals. And most of them probably don't consider the affairs of fleeting, ephemeral civilizations all that worthy of their attention to begin with. Even the Borg are mayflies to them. Why bother wiping them out when, on the cosmic scale of things, they'll probably be gone in a few eyeblinks anyway?