Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2

[TREK_GOD_1]

There's still no police commissioner.

It seemed like Sophie was going to run.

The second she said she quit the Crows, I believed she was going to announce that (or once the Big Bad eventually falls). So far, she's in career limbo, but considering what she said about the importance of having a black presence in law enforcement, her next step should be trying to be that representative on the GCPD--and fight to clean it up, and possibly act as contrast to the way the Crows do business (which will create some conflict with Jacob).

I'm sure that's largely true, but I resist blanket generalizations about any category of human beings. No matter what you can say about the majority of a group, there are always some people out at the far ends of the bell curve.

The episode's writers, Ebony Gilbert and Maya Houston, are both black women, so it stands to reason that they have black men in their lives. Maybe some of the men they know occupy a different part of the bell curve than the ones you know.

Sigh. The black community across America is one I'm very familiar with for obvious reasons, and its "members" hail from from all walks of life, but one of the central commonalities we share is our relationship to the criminal justice system and reaction to it, and none would have behaved like Luke. Luke's status / background should not have blinded him to those realities. Hell, I'm in a high tax bracket, yet there's no point in my life where that prevented me from being aware of the "black protocol" in facing law enforcement (and sure as Hell did not stop them from harassing me). This episode's writers needed Luke to be that black male victim of police brutality, but there's other ways he could have ended up in the same situation, instead of one that made him seem utterly ignorant of the relationship black men have with law enforcement. Its an inescapable reality across America.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Jacob has to step down too.

Hopped on on duty.

Sophie is in charge of the crows, and Luke is in charge of the GCPD, and they are both on team Batwoman.

Hell.

If Luke was in Charge of the GCPD, he'd surely be making tactical teams using Bat-tech?

Although couldn't Sophie be in charge of the crows and be the police commissioner?

A unified taskforce?

Oh.

It's Fraud?

The crows are contracted to work for GCPD.

Sophie can't in good faith negotiate against herself in good conscience for the Crows work contracts if shes sitting on both sides of the table.

 

[Christopher]

Its an inescapable reality across America.

I know that, but fiction is not strictly about reality. Even aside from the fantasy aspects of the Arrowverse, fiction often simplifies or exaggerates aspects of real life in order to make a story point or a message work. It's dramatic license. The job of fiction is not to duplicate reality with perfect exactness, but to use unreality to say something about reality. Also, sometimes fictional characters need to be more ignorant of certain things than they realistically should be so that those things can be explained to the audience.

In this case, evidently, they wanted to contrast Luke's relatively sheltered life with Ryan's more streetwise perspective. The contrast between them has been an ongoing thread all season, so this was in keeping with that. That was his role to play as a supporting character in Ryan's show.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ryan isn't street wise.

She's street dumb.

She picks fights with cops.

She wants to be shot.

Or go to jail.

In the noise complaint situation she turned into a mass incarceration, the correct thing to do, was to offer the police officers a drink, and then buy a dozen tickets to the policeman's ball.

The story wanted a racist cop to pick on a black person, but in any other episode, they would have been after a bribe to go away, because it's Gotham.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ I’ve seen plenty of video evidence that this isn’t always the case. I think the indignation over treatment has some speaking up or fighting back, behavior likely to get them in more trouble, rather than acquiesce to situations they see as unjust.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You can feel indignant.

But if you want to give them a reason to draw their knight sticks.

They will beat you until you are blind.

Touching a cop is assault.

Murdering a suspect resisting arrest is an appropriate response to assault.

Or you offer them a turkey sandwich.

Just because there are some good cops, you can't treat any of them like they may be decent non racist people, because they are all twitchy and shellshocked anticipating their own mortality every minute of the day on the job.

Remember Barney Miller?

Nothing underhanded going on there.

There was a reason that the population of Mayberry was %100 white.

 

[Christopher]

^ I’ve seen plenty of video evidence that this isn’t always the case. I think the indignation over treatment has some speaking up or fighting back, behavior likely to get them in more trouble, rather than acquiesce to situations they see as unjust.

Yes. It's easy to say that everyone knows the rules for how to cope with a dangerous situation, but that doesn't mean everyone will follow them perfectly in every instance. Human behavior isn't so mechanistically predictable.

For one thing, these weren't GCPD officers Luke was facing, but Crows Security personnel. Luke is probably used to seeing the Crows as colleagues, in his work as both the head of Wayne Enterprises security and a member of Team Batwoman. So maybe he wasn't thinking of this as the same kind of situation as a random traffic stop by a racist cop. He was used to dealing with Crows like Sophie and didn't anticipate how trigger-happy Tavaroff would be.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yes. It's easy to say that everyone knows the rules for how to cope with a dangerous situation, but that doesn't mean everyone will follow them perfectly in every instance. Human behavior isn't so mechanistically predictable.

For one thing, these weren't GCPD officers Luke was facing, but Crows Security personnel. Luke is probably used to seeing the Crows as colleagues, in his work as both the head of Wayne Enterprises security and a member of Team Batwoman. So maybe he wasn't thinking of this as the same kind of situation as a random traffic stop by a racist cop. He was used to dealing with Crows like Sophie and didn't anticipate how trigger-happy Tavaroff would be.

5 episodes.

From Tavaroff's wiki...

• Peak of human physical condition: As a member of Crows Security, Russell is likely in peak condition, given most of their agents are ex-Navy SEALs or Green Berets.[7]
• Expert Marksman: As a Crows Security Officer, Russell is experienced with firearms. He shot Luke Fox several times without missing.
• Expert investigator:

https://arrow.fandom.com/wiki/Russell_Tavaroff

The account of Luke's shooting is incredibly beige.

Then there's that crack in the powers and abilities section.

Making light of a dark issue.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ Whoa, that ain't cool. Hopefully that's more dark humor than outright racism but unfortunately that probably isn't the case.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Batwoman moving to Wednesday in the Fall

https://tvline.com/2021/05/25/the-cw-fall-lineup-2021-riverdale-tuesdays/

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Wise move, since The Walking Dead returns this fall for its final season, and that has the potential to be a "thing" which Batwoman would lose to in the ratings.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Yes, of course I know that, but this is Batwoman. You've already got Black Lightning if you want a male lead. My point is that women's perspectives matter too, and you don't seem to care that the women on this show even exist. You're talking as if you see Luke as the only black character in the show, as if you expect it to revolve exclusively around him. Recognizing that as unrealistic is not about race, it's about looking at the title of the show.

Woooooow. That is just so ignorant. And i would say racist. Now, i use a "rainbow of racism". This isn't "red" (KKK level), or "orange" (political rhetoric, which could lead to read), but certainly "yellow", where you might be able to look down on red and orange racists, but you have a lot you are carrying yourself.

You a WHITE male, telling @TREK_GOD_1 to just go to the "black show" if he wants to address issues significant to the black community is clearly yellow racism to me.

Just because Black Lightning takes a comprehemsive look at the many facets of black life and culture doesn't excuse other shows from NOT addressing those issues.

Why in the world do you keep stressing "male" when two of the show's three black leads, and four of its six main-title regulars overall, are female? The show is named Batwoman, for Beebo's sake, not Batwing. This episode was not just about Luke Fox's experience with racism. It was every bit as much about Ryan's and Sophie's, and even Imani's experience of it was touched on. That intersectionality, that exploration of multiple black perspectives differing by economic class, background, etc., was the entire point.

The other shows have SINGULAR person as the name (Flash, Supergirl, Arrow), yet all have fleshed out teams that go into detail with issues that each character deals with.

Would you tell a police office who is criticising Joe West's police procedures or Lynn Stewart's medical practices that they shouldn't criticize because those characters aren't the title character? Or would you actually listen to them, as they actually know what they are talking about?

Trek_God, as a black male, is faaaaaaar more qualified than you to say if such a character is lacking crucial development. You REALLY owe him not just a deep apology, but find some way to LEARN from him, and actually listen to the issues he brings up.

@Christopher , yo DO bring up a legitimate point of Luke's privilige, and perhaps that indeed blinds him to some degree. But he doesn't come across as naiive, as say, TC on Black Lightning. But if they had more time, I am sure he would have had those issues addressed as well.

But, PLEASE be more humble, and learn from people like @TREK_GOD_1

 

[Morpheus 02]

Batwoman moving to Wednesday in the Fall

https://tvline.com/2021/05/25/the-cw-fall-lineup-2021-riverdale-tuesdays/

Wise move, since The Walking Dead returns this fall for its final season, and that has the potential to be a "thing" which Batwoman would lose to in the ratings.

I would agree that this could help Batwoman, because as you said, they might have amped up the interest in Walking Dead with having a final season... now, is this just the first schedule move Batwoman has had?

I think also reducing the number of DC TV shows will also help, so people can focus more rather than be spread thin.

I know that, but fiction is not strictly about reality. Even aside from the fantasy aspects of the Arrowverse, fiction often simplifies or exaggerates aspects of real life in order to make a story point or a message work. It's dramatic license. The job of fiction is not to duplicate reality with perfect exactness, but to use unreality to say something about reality. Also, sometimes fictional characters need to be more ignorant of certain things than they realistically should be so that those things can be explained to the audience.

In this case, evidently, they wanted to contrast Luke's relatively sheltered life with Ryan's more streetwise perspective. The contrast between them has been an ongoing thread all season, so this was in keeping with that. That was his role to play as a supporting character in Ryan's show.

Holy hypocrisy, Batwoman! You say we shouldn't complain about ficiton not being strictly about reality. Yet you go off on Jennifer Pierce having a earring when she gets reconstituted. Which is it, man?????

 

[Guy Gardener]

Reading Russel's bio again.

He knows Luke.

Well, in the comics they know each other.

When you shoot an stranger in the street, that's one thing, but hen you shoot a buddy, you're the vice president.

I doubt they "know" each other in the Arrowverse, but if they did, which they probably don't, that adds a layer of intrigue to what happened.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'm curious of how should've the Luke plot have been handled? I don't think they meant to do the character dirty but wanted to make a statement about racism, law enforcement and inequality.

Would there have been a better way to have done this?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm curious of how should've the Luke plot have been handled? I don't think they meant to do the character dirty but wanted to make a statement about racism, law enforcement and inequality.

Would there have been a better way to have done this?

If the crows had shot him in the back without identifying themselves.

Or in the case of Brianna Taylor, if they had shot him dead while he was asleep in his living room.

A white person can sometimes reach for their wallet or phone while talking to the police, a black person cannot. They will be shot.

 

[Marc]

Or in the case of Brianna Taylor, if they had shot him dead while he was asleep in his living room.

Black Lightning had already referenced this one.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Black Lightning had already referenced this one.

So the CW is only allowed to reference this type of situation once?? And not from multiple viewpoints/consequences?

 

[Marc]

So the CW is only allowed to reference this type of situation once?? And not from multiple viewpoints/consequences?

why repeat a refernece/incident across two shows when there are so many others that can be drawn upon?

 

[Tuskin38]

why repeat a refernece/incident across two shows when there are so many others that can be drawn upon?

Not everyone who watches Batwoman watches black lightning, and not everyone who watches BL watches BW

I personally don’t watch Black Lightning.