Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dahj, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    My point is that it's not a thing just yet though. The problems with law enforcement today aren't because of deepfakes so it's a separation with what is really happening right now to people. It's fine as a story element but it might affect the effectiveness of trying to make a statement.
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I take your point, but I think it makes sense in the context of this particular story. In real life, the cops are always quick to call attention to any criminal record on the part of the unarmed black kid they shot in the back or choked to death, in an attempt to shift the blame on the victim and suggest that they "deserved" it. In this case, though, as Jacob explicitly said to Tavaroff, Luke Fox has no trace of a criminal record and has been meticulously strait-laced his entire life. So the only way the episode could suggest the dynamic of law enforcement impugning the reputation of the victim was through the planted gun and the deepfaked bodycam video putting it in Luke's hand. His record was so spotless that they had to fake it.

    Although you could fairly argue that that undermines the statement, because it doesn't really confront the evil of the implication that any minor criminal history justifies execution on the spot. It would've been a more potent story if it were more realistic, with the shooting victim having some genuine minor record that the authorities used to impugn his worth as a human being. Maybe Luke could've chalked up some misdemeanors as teenage rebellion, or gotten tickets for jaywalking or something.
     
  3. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    First look at


    Luke Fox as Batwing


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


     
  4. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    A face guard! Isn't that bat-sacrilege? Actually, the helmet is the main thing I'm not sure, might grow on me though . The pouches look like they'd get caught on things but the overall look is pretty slick.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Fairly close to the comics, apparently: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/m...extless.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130501164606

    Terry in Batman Beyond was the first Bat-hero with a full-face mask, I think, although one that somehow had a moving mouth. Never could figure out how that was supposed to work.
     
  6. Xerxes82

    Xerxes82 Captain Captain

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    It's either Terry from Batman Beyond, or Cass Cain as Batgirl. I THINK Terry came first, but I'm honestly not as familiar with Cass as I am most of the rest of the Bat-Fam.
     
  7. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I hope this development does not steer the character away from the larger, national issue his recent situation was supposed to be a comment about.

    On a side note, I also hope this does not just make him another "suit" with no attention paid to his real life as a black man faced with the criminal justice system--something completely watered down / barely addressed with James Olsen as Guardian on Supergirl.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I looked them up -- Batman Beyond predates Cassandra Cain's debut by six months, and her debut as Batgirl by seven months.
     
  9. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I can almost guarentee you they are not going to. This hasn't really been a show that goes that deep into issues like this and I don't think they're going to go any deeper on this one.
    Not every show is going to go all in on multiple episode for these kind of issues. They acknowledged it and explored how it effects their black characters, and now they're going to move on.
    This really is primarily an action show, so it's expecting to much of them to really go all in on something like this like you want them to.
    Not every show is going to be a deep examination of this kind of stuff, some shows just like to acknowledge that it is happening and then move on.
    You really need to learn to match your expectations to what you're watching.
    I've been wondering if that was going to happen. I like what I'm seeing there so far.
    I'm really starting to think these kind of superhero shows (and movies) just aren't for you. You really seem to go into almost every one of these with unrealistic expectations for what you want them to be.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's not what it looks like from the previews.
    Clearly Luke's shooting is meant to be the catalyst for his decision to become Batwing. There's a clip in the preview for next week of John Diggle counseling Luke to use his anger constructively. So clearly he's not just going to forget what was done to him.
     
  11. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, they might deal with how being shot effected Luke, but that's separate from continuing to deal with corrupt and racist law enforcement, and how they treat black people. The fact that they stopped Tavarov and shut down the Crows makes me think that's probably going to be the end of that part of the story.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    For now, perhaps, but I doubt they'll just forget about racism forevermore. It'll be an underlying thread, as it was in Black Lightning, though it probably won't be quite as pronounced.

    I mean, this is The CW we're talking about. Social consciousness is their brand these days, even if they don't always go into the issues as deeply or subtly as they could.
     
  13. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, but it's probably not going to be a major focus of the series, with whole season long story arcs dealing exclusively with issues like racism, police corruption, ect.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not an exclusive focus, certainly, but that doesn't mean it won't be addressed at all. Maybe we should just wait and see what they actually do instead of trying to read tea leaves.
     
  15. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Admiral Admiral

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    Cass's Batgirl costume, though, worn by a "mysterious unknown character" who turned out to be Helena Bertinelli, debuted in "Batman: Shadow of the Bat" #83:
    [​IMG]
    The cover date was March 1999, so considering how comic cover dates work, it should have been released pretty close to Batman Beyond's premiere on January 10.
     
  16. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know which show you're watching, but Batwoman is no different than the other Berlanti shows which are not light on sociopolitical issues and are not all "one-and-done" plots either--until the gross mishandling of what Luke's situation was supposed to represent in this plot.

    You seem to think everything is like the worst of the MCU, where its not much more than an action romp and grab some more popcorn. If left up to you, the number of very serious themes which shaped The Falcon and the Winter Soldier would have prevented it from going to series at all (the same with Black Lightning), as you think comic book shows & movies have to be one way with the same repeated beats. Thankfully, they are not and the genre is better off for it.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Hmm, yeah, it probably came out earlier, although given how much longer the lead time is on an animated series compared to a comic, the Beyond costume was almost certainly designed earlier. I guess we can call it effectively a tie.
     
  18. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, they have touched on some issues, but they don't tend to go that deep into them.


    And you do the exact same thing in the opposite direction, so you're not really in a place to criticize me.
    And I don't have a problem with shows like Black Lightning or The Falcon & The Winter Solider that go deep into the issues, but I don't expect every single movie, and TV show that is being produced to do that, and I don't start throwing a shit fit when a show doesn't do and start insulting the show, the writers, or the people who enjoy it, the way you do.
    Even if it isn't your intent, I have found a lot of your posts about things like the MCU highly insulting.
     
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  19. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You're full of it, as not one is asking or expecting every superhero series or movie to deal with the kind of serious issues seen in Black Lightning or The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, nor should they try. That's quite a different position from someone who falls back on the "oh, its comic book movies" as a whisker-thin excuse / desire for all such productions to be light action romps. Again, if it were up to you, many of the best superhero productions of the past two decades would not exist, as you are see no value in anything that is not from a certain assembly line of tone and content.
     
  20. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, that really was the way a lot of your posts have come across to me.
    When I said in my last post that I have found some of your pasts posts insulting, I was being completely serious. A lot of the things you have said, have come across to me as you saying that anyone who likes the MCU, or anything like it, is a loser, and juvenile moron who is below you, and who you look down on.
    I never meant to say that every show or movie should be like, and I apologize for the misunderstanding if that was how it came across, all I ever meant was that I prefer lighter stuff, and that I don't go into everything expecting it to be like Black Lightning or The Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
    And it seems like any time a you were commenting on a show that wasn't like that, all you did was insult the show, the people who made it, and the people who liked it.
    I watched stuff like this as escapism to get away from the fucking horrific, nightmare shit show that is the real world, and while there is definitely value in examining the issues that make it a fucking horrific, nightmare shit show, I'd rather not have to be reminded of that every time I watch a TV show or movie. Sometimes I just want to sit back, and have fun, which I find hard to do when all a show or movie does is remind me how horrible things are.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021