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Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2

In the comics, traditionally, the Gotham Police commissioner served at the pleasure of the mayor and/or council.

Nothing to stop any TV series production team from depicting the place differently, I suppose...
 
Woooooow. That is just so ignorant. And i would say racist.

I have observed as much, and its not uncommon for statements of that kind to come from Bennett and others those who present themselves as the most liberal in society, as you see in this thread and others.

Now, i use a "rainbow of racism". This isn't "red" (KKK level), or "orange" (political rhetoric, which could lead to read), but certainly "yellow", where you might be able to look down on red and orange racists, but you have a lot you are carrying yourself.

Indeed.

You a WHITE male, telling @TREK_GOD_1 to just go to the "black show" if he wants to address issues significant to the black community is clearly yellow racism to me.

Agreed, and putting up any paltry defense of a series that wanted to jump on as many soapboxes as possible, and often in a immature manner. That's one of the problems with Batwoman's latest sub-plot: it is a soapbox, instead of an honest reflection of the black experience, particularly the black male, since Luke was the biggest victim in this storyline.

Just because Black Lightning takes a comprehemsive look at the many facets of black life and culture doesn't excuse other shows from NOT addressing those issues.

Well, that's the impression you are addressing. Its patently offensive (racist), since I've seen endless examples of the biggest self-identifying white liberals pull this with black subjects, but offer red-eyed arguments that other sociopoitical subjects should be covered in as many productions (franchise or not) as possible.

The other shows have SINGULAR person as the name (Flash, Supergirl, Arrow), yet all have fleshed out teams that go into detail with issues that each character deals with.

..and there's less than a handful of viewer complaints about the other Arrowverse series addressing some of the same sociopolitical issues on a number of series, yet somehow, when it comes to a subject that is supposed to focus on the plight of a black male in relation to the criminal justice system, we are told that its handled "enough" elsewhere.

Would you tell a police office who is criticising Joe West's police procedures or Lynn Stewart's medical practices that they shouldn't criticize because those characters aren't the title character? Or would you actually listen to them, as they actually know what they are talking about?

Very good question, and if it is not answered, I'm certain you will not be surprised.

Trek_God, as a black male, is faaaaaaar more qualified than you to say if such a character is lacking crucial development. You REALLY owe him not just a deep apology, but find some way to LEARN from him, and actually listen to the issues he brings up.

Remember, for some of the most aggressively outspoken white liberals, they operate from the same "I'm White and I Say So" platform as their conservative opposites--both so astoundingly arrogant that they cannot see how ignorant and fact-challenged their sociopolitical statements are, so they tend to dig in and make crumbling arguments about extremely important / serious subjects well beyond their knowledge & experience. The will--the freedom to operate in the world that way is one of the jewels in the crown of White Privilege.
 
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Batwoman
Season 2 - Episode 15 - "Armed and Dangerous"

Last time on Batwoman, Luke was shot by Crows agent Tavaroff while reaching into his coat...

Luke Fox:
Luke falls to the pavement. Comatose, he imagines he's talking to his father (SEE NOTES). but sees a vision of "Bruce Wayne." The vision tells Luke he was "called" because Luke has a decision to make to either hold on (with doctors not knowing how to help him), or move on to be with his father, but "Wayne" warns that if he decides to see his father, Luke will die.

As the Desert Rose formula begins to work on Luke, he has to let go of his wish to see his father. Luke tells the "Wayne" vision that he left Gotham because the fight against crime was too much--too depressing, and feeling the same way, Luke decides to see his father, but ends up coming out of his coma.

Wilder/BW / Mary:
Wilder asks why Mary is not at Gotham General trying to help with Luke, and she replies that they do not have what she does--the "Desert Rose" plant (SEE Supergirl Notes).

BW catches carjacker Eli, and despite his explaining how Luke was shot (and how its his own fault for not minding his own business) and that her issues should be with the Crows, BW knocks him out...

BW eventually discovers Tavaroff is at the center of a number of incidents, and sets out to find him. It is not long before she located the man and attacks him, placing him in a choke-hold and demanding he admit he shot and framed Luke. Tavaroff replies Luke had been recently released from jail and was stealing a car--breaking the law as she is now; he breaks free by reverse head-butting her just as a Crows vehicle speeds by, hitting BW, sending her flying to the street. Tavaroff climbs into the car and escapes, leaving BW sprawled out in pain.

Later, BW and Sophie catch the shooting footage (released to the media), where a gun has been digitally added to Luke's hand, and unless Sophie can access the original footage, Luke will be charged for a crime he did not commit.

BW blames her "privileged: accusations toward Luke for making him take the chance he did with Eli, and fears he will die (SEE NOTES).

Jacob / Tavaroff / Mary:
At a Crows internal affairs inquiry, Jacob interviews Tavaroff, who recalls Luke being a "suspicious-looking" man attempting to steal a car; Jacob explains that Luke once worked for his daughter and would wield a keyboard more than a gun. One of the other review board members commends Tavaroff for his bravery.

Mary--despite telling the Crows guards outside of Luke's hospital room that she's Jacob's daughter--is prevented from entering the room on Jacob's orders.

Using the talents of Evan--the so-named "wolf spider," he breaks into Luke's room (from the window) and injects a Desert Rose formula into his IV.

Sophie argues with Jacob over the Luke case; she makes the case that if the Crows once bent the rules with evidence to put away a rapist, its possible that evidence was altered in Luke's case.

That day, Jacob confronts Tavaroff about his less-than-legal methods; when the agent tries to turn that accusation back on Jacob, he's asked to hand over his badge and gun until his investigation is over. Instead, Tavaroff removes his gun, spins and strikes Jacob, knocking him out. Discovering Jacob's track marks, the agent intends to give Jacob a lethal injection of Snake Bite to smear Kane's reputation in death and protect himself; although his lackeys question the plan, Tavaroff reminds them that the evidence against them could send them all to jail. Before he can administer the dose, BW breaks in and fights off the group, beating them down quickly; Tavaroff manages to strangle her, but she breaks away, knocking him out (there's a lot of that in this episode). Freeing Jacob, BW says she understands he wants to do good and bends the rules to do so on occasion, but to stop the Crows' corruption, he needs to "burn it down."

At a press conference, Jacob exposes Tavaroff and his crimes, and although the unaltered footage of Luke was not retrieved, he will testify to exonerate Luke. Admitting guilt of years of Crows corruption, he disbands the organization. That evening, as Jacob cleans out his office, Sophie approaches him, talking about "getting there" as a reference toward dealing with the problems of the street (SEE NOTES). Jacob says she was always his best agent, with Sophie replying that she always looked up to him.

Later, Alice meets Jacob in his car, reveals Kate is alive and under Black Mask's control. She asks him to help get Kate back and not let anything stand in their way....

Alice / Ocean: In "And Justice for All," Ocean admitted his love for Alice, who barely knew how to process the man's honesty. Alice still searches for a memory key to retrieve Kate's memory, but Ocean does not think Kate is worth Alice risking her life for. Alice resigns herself to going it alone in her quest.

Alice shows up at the Wayne building, and questions Mary about Circe, warning her to watch her back, as Circe seems to go after members of the Kane family. Mary attempts amateur psychoanalysis on Alice, telling her that she's in love, but if she had that earlier in life, she might not be the monster she is today...

Later (at Alice's subway hideout), Ocean packs his bags, tired of Alice not committing to what they have, but Alice pleads to know why he still wanted her despite her choosing Kate over him (and trying to kill him). Ocean explains 9in so many words) that they were both lost, but drawn to each other. Alice believes she's now free to make her own decisions, but still "wants it all"--meaning Ocean and her sister. Caught in the moment, Ocean and Alice give into their passions...


NOTES:
...and so the problems continue: the showrunners never had the will or sense to employ writers who can do what 35 episodes never bothered to introduce, build and seriously address in the series.

This episode's writer--Nancy Kiu (S2/E3 - "Bat-Girl Magic!") continued the downward slide into bald-faced disregard for the serious subjects that were barely broached in E14's Very Special Episode, "And Justice for All". As I predicted, the showrunners used Luke as their stand-in for real world events, but they had an obligation to clean-up that simplistic, offensive mess of the previous episode to address what should have been the realistic aftermath of Luke's plight, one which should not have included any insta-"feel good" takedown of Tavaroff and some Very Special Episode-esque speech / promise for justice / reform.

For what should have been the all-important follow-up story, this was a rushed, quickie wrap-up of absolutely no consequences that--for a show that loves to stand on the soapbox--lacked the grinding turmoil, the sickening minute-by-minute feeling of outrage and hopelessness real black males feel after being harassed and/or assaulted by law enforcement. On that note, some officers are charged, some officers are sentenced, but that--as so many black voices say without end--does little to change deep-rooted societal, legal and philosophical racial decay that has black people--males above the rest--with their backs against the walls of a world, essentially waiting their turn.

I'll write that again: waiting their turn.

This episode say not a damned serious word about that, which goes far deeper than corrupt law enforcement.

Even the solution to Luke's wounds removed his need to have his own struggle (note that he's back on his feet and on some mission in the teaser for E16); real victims of police violence do not have magical, cure-all flowers to make it all go away, and as a result, Luke's recovery by Berlanti-verse BS rendered Luke's situation as easy to sweep under the carpets...as meaningless as James Olsen's recovery from gunshots (via Luthor-Med-Magic from Supergirl's fourth season). But Luke having to suffer through that aforementioned grinding turmoil and possibly fail in overcoming his troubles was not part of the plan at all.
Then, there's Wilder blaming herself for Luke's actions: once again, the impact of what the showrunners were trying to borrow--the danger for black men in encounters with law enforcement--was reduced to Luke being so bothered by Wilder that he broke the deeply ingrained black protocol / committed an act that (as I've explained before) no black man in America is unaware of, no matter his socioeconomic status.

Once again, the show wanted to make a statement, yet stripped Luke of what is a self-defensive / psychological system / heirloom, all to try to give the Wilder character a dramatic moment, which made Luke appear to be unrealistically clueless and easily manipulated about a kind of relationship black males have to law enforcement that tells them not to reach into a coat or pocket when the police roll up on you for any reason.

It matters not what the showrunners do with this subject going forward, since the ground zero of this subject should have hit harder in having Luke's plight occur for reasons the audience will know ring true (instead of his utterly unrealistic, black protocol-breaking naivete), but that was lost all in focusing on a symptom of a disease, rather than the disease itself.

Oh, and because this is another Arrowverse series, someone should have informed the writer that the concept of a character in a near-death experience hallucinating / or dreaming that he's talking to loved ones was already used in the series finale of Black Lightning.

With the Crows organization shut down, yet Jacob and Sophie speaking as if the solution to the problems might be found by other methods implied they will work together on something, but as of the moment, Jacob is a rudderless ship, as one of his character motivational foundations has been removed, and after admitting his complicity in Crows misdeeds, he's as far removed from law enforcement as possible. The same apples to Sophie who--one episode earlier--made the point that it was important to stay in law enforcement to show a black presence there to her people, but now..?. Being a Berlanti production and knowing how incredibly repetitive they are, I would not be surprised if Sophie & Jacob pull a J'onn and either work as P.I.s, or (in keeping with the community center theme already sub-plotted earlier), some off-the-books, social worker-esque outreach group.

At the end of it all, Batwoman's showrunners did not give a damn about the grim and complex issue they only used as their Very Special Episodes, which to the viewers who actually live and experience real racism, real racial profiling / abuse from law enforcement, real consequences and its continuing slicing at the psychological underpinnings of the black man and black family in America. With this specific kind of Hell black men face every day in this country, the last thing we need is a weak, offensive, bullshitting, platitude overflowing episode designed to make the showrunners and their product appear to be genuinely invested in one of THE major sociopolitical crises, when they have largely ignored it after 35 episodes.

GRADE: D-.
 
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So next week’s episode has Diggle.

Oh, and because this is another Arrowverse series, someone should have informed the writer that the concept of a character in a near-death experience hallucinating / or dreaming that he's talking to loved ones was already used in the series finale of Black Lightning.

And? I’m not sure what your point is here. Not everyone who watches Batwoman watches Black Lightning.
Also a lot more shows/movies/books than BL have used this concept.
 
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I'm left wondering how long it should take to properly roll up a high-profile private security company on the scale that Crows was operating at. Weeks to months, surely?
 
I don't mind them giving Warren Christie a chance to play Bruce Wayne for real (or at least a hallucinatory approximation thereof), but this was kind of an awkward context in which to do it, just standing there in the office and keeping Luke from getting to talk to his dad. Although it might work better in retrospect if this turns out to be what sets Luke on the path to becoming Batwing. It could be seen as getting Bruce's blessing for it, or carrying on his legacy, or something.

As with Joe West quitting the police on The Flash, Jacob shutting down the Crows feels more like walking away from the problem than committing to solving it. I mean, even with Tavaroff's "Murder of Crows" posse taken down, there are still a lot of ex-Crows now who are accustomed to a culture of corrupt law enforcement, and a lot of them may get hired by whatever security firm fills the void left by the Crows. It would be better to stay in a position of authority and commit to doing the work to reform the institution from the top down.
 
The argument will be that "they had their (centuries of) chances to change for the better", and there is a certain truth to that argument. Truth written on the tombstones of the wrongly dead. Those who were allowed the chance to have tombstones, that is. In Gotham perhaps more than elsewhere in this particular version of the world, there's high odds of there being unmarked graves in places like Slaughter Swamp or Lake Michigan(?)...
 
And Warren Christie vs. Kevin Conroy is still going to continue as an argument for a while, I think...but Christie did well enough with what he was given to work with here.
 
And Warren Christie vs. Kevin Conroy is still going to continue as an argument for a while, I think...

Which is based more in sentiment than logic, since Christie is the correct age for Earth-Prime's Bruce Wayne while Conroy is a couple of decades too old. It would be tantamount to casting Helen Slater as Supergirl instead of her adoptive mother.

Besides, I don't think I've ever seen a screen Bruce Wayne who has a Bruce Wayne-ier jawline than Warren Christie.
 
Jacob is on drugs.

The board can declare him unfit if they find out, or fire him for just being a unilateral dick.

Although maybe Jacob could move his money into street lights?

I've heard the argument that an extra thousand street lamps in Gotham would save more lives than Gotham ever could. Meanwhile Bruce Wayne has probably been stifling any street light initiative for years, because if Gotham was as bright as Metropolis, he would have been shot in the face a lot back when he patrolled.
 
I still don't know that putting a face to the problem such as with super pig Tavaroff is the best way to present the issues. It just seems too neat and tidy. Now that the Crows are shut down Gothamites can enjoy full-time protection from the GCPD, yay?

Having the doctored body cam footage also takes away from connecting it with real world issues. I guess that's OK, not everything need be a teachable moment and all but I sense they were trying to make a statement. I'm torn, I guess on one hand it's a goofy CW comic book show so maybe I'm overthinking it all.

Maybe it's from the brevity of the episodes but it seemed like Ryan was more worried about justice than Luke's welfare. I guess we as the audience knew more about the situtation than the characters but I was right there with Sophie when she was asking "Aren't you concerned?". It would've been nice to see Batwoman having some trouble operating without her missing tech support. At least we know justice has been served to car thief guy!

I did like the callback to Jacob's handling of shooting at Batwoman which I thought needed scrutiny. It was a little random but Wolf Spider or whatever was a fun little insert.

I am looking forward to getting back to a bit more Kate Kane soapy tomfoolery. Interesting that Jacob is "Alice" and not "Beth" at this point.
 
Doctored body-cam footage is not so far from real-worlds issues as you might think. Deepfake videos have been a cause of growing concern in the last half-decade at least. That Tavaroff would have thought ahead to use one as a preemptive tactic against Luke Fox's testimony doesn't surprise me at all.
 
I still don't know that putting a face to the problem such as with super pig Tavaroff is the best way to present the issues. It just seems too neat and tidy. Now that the Crows are shut down Gothamites can enjoy full-time protection from the GCPD, yay?

Yeah, it did feel like too pat and easy a fix.


Maybe it's from the brevity of the episodes but it seemed like Ryan was more worried about justice than Luke's welfare.

She trusted Mary to save Luke with the Desert Rose.

Which makes me expect that that plant is going to be destroyed by the end of the season. It's too convenient for the heroes to have an easy miracle cure on hand like that. They've used it to save the heroes twice now, and that's at least once too many. You never want to make things too easy for the good guys.


At least we know justice has been served to car thief guy!

Ryan was concerned with more than just the car theft. The guy was partly responsible for getting Luke shot. He used his white privilege to shift the blame onto a black man, knowing that he could use the predictable racism of law enforcement to his advantage. So he was by no means an innocent bystander.
 
I'm finally caught up, and since I don't remember the episodes, I'm just going with random thoughts.
Stephanie Brown showing up in the Cluemaster episode was a surprise, I would have expected them to make a bigger deal about a character like that showing up.
Luke definitely should have known better than to reach into his pocket like that. I was honestly shocked he was that stupid when he did it.
Now I'm white, and been lucky enough to not have to deal with cops, but even my big rule if I do end up situation like that is not to move at all unless they tell me too. If I had to, then I would either ask or tell them what I'm doing before I before I do it.
Very curious to see where they're heading with Circe/Kate. Even if she does get her real memories back, I'm assuming something is going to happen to keep her out of the Batsuit.
I find it a little funny that Warren Christie showed up again, but he's still wasn't actually playing the real Bruce Wayne.
 
I find it a little funny that Warren Christie showed up again, but he's still wasn't actually playing the real Bruce Wayne.

No surprise. They're probably holding off on that for a while yet.

I still want to see Christie show up on Superman & Lois in a flashback to before Batman retired, so we can get a glimpse of the Arrowverse version of the World's Finest team. He doesn't even have to be in the suit, just Clark and Bruce playing off each other.
 
I still don't know that putting a face to the problem such as with super pig Tavaroff is the best way to present the issues. It just seems too neat and tidy.

That's the result of the showrunners wanting to funnel all of the issues into the body of a boogeyman instead of seriously addressing the larger, aforementioned societal, legal and philosophical racial decay that torments black people, and that cannot be contained in the form of one corrupt officer. As you correctly observed, Tavaroff's arrest was just a neat and tidy "feel good" way of never taking the necessary move to show just what the group they chose to focus on (with Luke as their proxy) deal with across avenues of life in America.


Now that the Crows are shut down Gothamites can enjoy full-time protection from the GCPD, yay?

Yes--and exactly how is the rampant crime situation going to be dealt with when it was overwhelming when the Crows and the GCPD were on the job? I theorized that Sophie and Jacob might approach crime in a different way, but with Jacob's throwing himself on the Crows' sword, he cannot operate without the public's trust--not out in the open.

Having the doctored body cam footage also takes away from connecting it with real world issues. I guess that's OK, not everything need be a teachable moment and all but I sense they were trying to make a statement. I'm torn, I guess on one hand it's a goofy CW comic book show so maybe I'm overthinking it all.

I do not believe you're overthinking it, because you live in reality, and know that convenient digital gun business just shifted universal blame to Tavaroff, so once he was taken down, its off to pick daisies in BW-land. One of the most fiery issues in America cannot be answered through one story about one officer and his cronies, so it was clear the showrunners attempted to make Tavaroff the center of a national issue, when he's merely a symptom, while the disease was never explored with intelligence and depth at all.

Maybe it's from the brevity of the episodes but it seemed like Ryan was more worried about justice than Luke's welfare.

Wilder is the bullhorn for the showrunners' hollow platform, so she was talking about their concerns (rather obvious, as they approved the story) and aside from attempting to soapbox police violence, the daily struggle, the environment black males live with in relation to law enforcement (no matter socioeconomic position) was used and discarded, which was reflected in most of Wilder's behavior and concern being about Tavaroff, rather than the life of someone who is--allegedly--supposed to be important to her. He's not, because he was not the real focus for the showrunners. I'm certain they would deny the charge, but the evidence is all in what they did not do in E14 and 15.

I am looking forward to getting back to a bit more Kate Kane soapy tomfoolery. Interesting that Jacob is "Alice" and not "Beth" at this point.

Because the showrunners have their plans for Wilder, I do not expect much more than Kate regaining her memory, but she will not pick up where she left off (i.e. Batwoman), or even try to. Don't be too surprised if there's a scene where Kate--seeing Wilder in action--makes some "You have earned the mantle of..." / "You're better than I ever was" type of statements to hammer the audience into accepting that Kate is never going to be the series Batwoman again.

About Jacob, if you mean his addressing Beth as Alice, its probably a show of his acceptance that he cannot see her as his daughter--not after all he's learned about her.
 
Reiterating: deepfakery is part of the real-worlds' troubles. What Tavaroff and co. tried to do to Luke Fox is a thing we will see in the news. If you've been paying attention to Slashdot, Wired, Ars Technica, the Register, etc. over the last few years, you will see this has been a continuing fear: faked evidence, particularly the audio-visual variety. The same tech that gives us shows like the DC TV "Berlanti-'verse" series can be put to use in these ways too.
 
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