Spoiler!!!!!
Spoilers Batwoman - Season 2
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
Batwoman
Season 2 - Episode 14 - "And Justice for All"
Last time on Batwoman, Alice discovered Circe is--in fact--Kate, and Jacob was coding after overdosing on the Snakebite drug...
Luke Fox / Wilder/BW: Two police officers enter the bar, demanding to see paperwork under the excuse that there's a noise complaint; Wilder immediately accuses the officers of racism (because of the "black and brown" people gathered there), and despite Luke trying to de-escalate the situation, which nearly worked, until Wilder continued to be argumentative, and slapped one officer's hand away, leading to the officers placing her--and Luke--under arrest. In lock-up, Wilder accuses Luke of behaving like a privileged person, but Luke straightens her out--informing her that hers is an assumption based on the fact he grew up with rich white kids, but he explains that in his racial experience, he learned how to react when the odds were against him.
Later, Luke gives Wilder a case with syringes that contain a possible antidote, but she cannot administer anything, as Agent Tavaroff and his men show up and shoot the addicts to death.
Sophie: Sophie shows up a the bar, seeing the police damage, and after questioning one of the officers, he arrests her, eventually placing her in the same cell as Luke and Wilder. Sophie notes that she identify herself a a Crow, but in no time at all, Wilder starts throwing more "privilege" accusations out, charging that if Sophie was in uniform, she would never be arrested. Sophie fires back--saying Wilder would not be in jail if she had not assaulted a cop.
Sophie makes the rational point that its important to see black people in law enforcement as inspiration for others, and schools Wilder about her bravery--that being Sophie Moore in uniform or not--she does not have the luxury of hiding behind a mask.
After being bailed out, Sophie returns to Crows HQ, ordering the field agents out to prevent more cannibal attacks, but agent Tavaroff completely disrespects her, until Sophie threatens to exercise her authority. Tavaroff and his crew disrespectfully march off...
Sophie--apparently ignoring her own personal mission--quits the Crows. Unless she runs for some higher office in the GCPD, the vital, inspirational reason for her being in law enforcement will be lost.
Jacob / Mary: Jacob lies about his history with Snakebite, but Mary does not buy his stories. A man shows up at the clinic, admitting his addiction to a new form of Snakebite, which has triggered acts of cannibalism in its users...
Despite Jacob's own experience aiding Mary in the clinic, she still snaps at Jacob, claiming that while he's been suffering from the loss of his daughters, she's felt the same, but she's talking out of her ass (or rather, the showrunners are for giving voice to such an asinine claim), since she cannot know what it means for a parent who was with his children from the very beginning--to lose them by any means. Ah, but with Mary, its always a whine, and all about her.
Roman Sionis/Black Mask / NuKate aka Circe / Alice: Alice is convinced Circe is Kate and insists she stick around, but Roman grants Alice her freedom..promising that she will lose her tongue if she utters a word of her experiences at Sionis' home..
Alice visits Rhyme, threatening to kill her, but Rhyme spills the kind of memory-screwing "treatments" she gave Alice and Kate, and how Kate might have her memory restored...
Once free, Alice returns to one of her abandoned subway hideouts, where she runs into Ocean, who had been there for two days, waiting for her. Ocean truly cares about Alice and says the disturbed woman can talk to him, and with that, Alice tearfully reveals that Kate is alive. As she embraces Ocean, he has a very curious look on his face (SEE NOTES).
Back at Rhyme's office, Alice learns Kate's memory can be restored--with a sort of password, but the second Rhyme tries to reveal it, Ocean snaps her neck. His reason: trying to prevent Alice from what he sees as a one-sided, fruitless pursuit of Kate, when the latter always chose others over her. Kate, he explained, always had her freedom, while Alice was a prisoner for 11 years, and once Kate returned to Gotham, placed Alice in another form of prison again--the prison of waiting for Kate to cross an emotional bridge to her. Ocean also admits he's in love with Alice, but walks off, letting the sting of his words take its full effect.
NOTES:
This episode's writers--Ebony Gilbert (S2/E4 - "Fair Skin, Blue Eyes") & Maya Houston (S2/E9 - "Rule #1") were trying to force far too many racial and justice system issues into this single episode in such a heavy-handed manner. This was predictable, as Batwoman--particularly in the Wilder--era only seems to use race when convenient, and often in a Very Special Episode-esque, stand-on-the-soapbox fashion that seems patently constructed, instead of being an organic part of the lives and landscape of the characters, as seen in superior, mature series such as Black Lightning and Captain America and the Winter Soldier.
Its for that constructed reason that Luke being shot down by the cartoon-ish Tavarov did not have the emotional punch intended, because the idea of an unarmed black man being shot needed to have a patiently layered set-up as part of Gotham's sociopolitical landscape from the start, building the injustice experienced by black men as a running sub-plot starting since season one (and no, the episode concerning the set-up of the man believed to have killed Lucius was not even scratching the surface of this issue).
Moreover, now that the showrunners have used Luke as their stand-in for real world events, they will have to find a way to write the realistic aftermath of such an event, that cannot end with a "feel good" takedown of Tavaroff and some Very Special Episode speech / promise to reform the Crows and/or the GCPD. We will see if the showrunners have the sense to employ writers who can do what 34 episodes never bothered to introduce into the series.
It is extremely disappointing that two black writers seemed to not know how to approach and develop a plot regarding one of the central problems black Americans face every day. A true "WTF" situation.
Not unexpected of the showrunners, the series' in-universe "town crier" refers to church goers as "zombified zealots". Amusing, since there's much zealotry to be found among those who live to make blanket insults against the faithful.
For a moment, I thought Ocean was going to turn out to be Safiyah's plant and betray Alice. thankfully, that was not the case. Regarding Kate, Ocean's truth bomb gives the show a out for the Kate character: if she continues to think she's Circe, she will eventually meet her end, and if she somehow regains her memory, i'm betting she will be written as having to come to terms with her crimes as Circe, how her past life in Gotham cannot be continued (since everyone--except Jacob--had moved on), and it would be in the best interest of all if she starts a new life elsewhere.
The next episode--"Armed Suspect"--airs on 6/6.
GRADE: D.
Season 2 - Episode 14 - "And Justice for All"
Last time on Batwoman, Alice discovered Circe is--in fact--Kate, and Jacob was coding after overdosing on the Snakebite drug...
Luke Fox / Wilder/BW: Two police officers enter the bar, demanding to see paperwork under the excuse that there's a noise complaint; Wilder immediately accuses the officers of racism (because of the "black and brown" people gathered there), and despite Luke trying to de-escalate the situation, which nearly worked, until Wilder continued to be argumentative, and slapped one officer's hand away, leading to the officers placing her--and Luke--under arrest. In lock-up, Wilder accuses Luke of behaving like a privileged person, but Luke straightens her out--informing her that hers is an assumption based on the fact he grew up with rich white kids, but he explains that in his racial experience, he learned how to react when the odds were against him.
Later, Luke gives Wilder a case with syringes that contain a possible antidote, but she cannot administer anything, as Agent Tavaroff and his men show up and shoot the addicts to death.
Sophie: Sophie shows up a the bar, seeing the police damage, and after questioning one of the officers, he arrests her, eventually placing her in the same cell as Luke and Wilder. Sophie notes that she identify herself a a Crow, but in no time at all, Wilder starts throwing more "privilege" accusations out, charging that if Sophie was in uniform, she would never be arrested. Sophie fires back--saying Wilder would not be in jail if she had not assaulted a cop.
Sophie makes the rational point that its important to see black people in law enforcement as inspiration for others, and schools Wilder about her bravery--that being Sophie Moore in uniform or not--she does not have the luxury of hiding behind a mask.
After being bailed out, Sophie returns to Crows HQ, ordering the field agents out to prevent more cannibal attacks, but agent Tavaroff completely disrespects her, until Sophie threatens to exercise her authority. Tavaroff and his crew disrespectfully march off...
Sophie--apparently ignoring her own personal mission--quits the Crows. Unless she runs for some higher office in the GCPD, the vital, inspirational reason for her being in law enforcement will be lost.
Jacob / Mary: Jacob lies about his history with Snakebite, but Mary does not buy his stories. A man shows up at the clinic, admitting his addiction to a new form of Snakebite, which has triggered acts of cannibalism in its users...
Despite Jacob's own experience aiding Mary in the clinic, she still snaps at Jacob, claiming that while he's been suffering from the loss of his daughters, she's felt the same, but she's talking out of her ass (or rather, the showrunners are for giving voice to such an asinine claim), since she cannot know what it means for a parent who was with his children from the very beginning--to lose them by any means. Ah, but with Mary, its always a whine, and all about her.
Roman Sionis/Black Mask / NuKate aka Circe / Alice: Alice is convinced Circe is Kate and insists she stick around, but Roman grants Alice her freedom..promising that she will lose her tongue if she utters a word of her experiences at Sionis' home..
Alice visits Rhyme, threatening to kill her, but Rhyme spills the kind of memory-screwing "treatments" she gave Alice and Kate, and how Kate might have her memory restored...
Once free, Alice returns to one of her abandoned subway hideouts, where she runs into Ocean, who had been there for two days, waiting for her. Ocean truly cares about Alice and says the disturbed woman can talk to him, and with that, Alice tearfully reveals that Kate is alive. As she embraces Ocean, he has a very curious look on his face (SEE NOTES).
Back at Rhyme's office, Alice learns Kate's memory can be restored--with a sort of password, but the second Rhyme tries to reveal it, Ocean snaps her neck. His reason: trying to prevent Alice from what he sees as a one-sided, fruitless pursuit of Kate, when the latter always chose others over her. Kate, he explained, always had her freedom, while Alice was a prisoner for 11 years, and once Kate returned to Gotham, placed Alice in another form of prison again--the prison of waiting for Kate to cross an emotional bridge to her. Ocean also admits he's in love with Alice, but walks off, letting the sting of his words take its full effect.
NOTES:
This episode's writers--Ebony Gilbert (S2/E4 - "Fair Skin, Blue Eyes") & Maya Houston (S2/E9 - "Rule #1") were trying to force far too many racial and justice system issues into this single episode in such a heavy-handed manner. This was predictable, as Batwoman--particularly in the Wilder--era only seems to use race when convenient, and often in a Very Special Episode-esque, stand-on-the-soapbox fashion that seems patently constructed, instead of being an organic part of the lives and landscape of the characters, as seen in superior, mature series such as Black Lightning and Captain America and the Winter Soldier.
Its for that constructed reason that Luke being shot down by the cartoon-ish Tavarov did not have the emotional punch intended, because the idea of an unarmed black man being shot needed to have a patiently layered set-up as part of Gotham's sociopolitical landscape from the start, building the injustice experienced by black men as a running sub-plot starting since season one (and no, the episode concerning the set-up of the man believed to have killed Lucius was not even scratching the surface of this issue).
Moreover, now that the showrunners have used Luke as their stand-in for real world events, they will have to find a way to write the realistic aftermath of such an event, that cannot end with a "feel good" takedown of Tavaroff and some Very Special Episode speech / promise to reform the Crows and/or the GCPD. We will see if the showrunners have the sense to employ writers who can do what 34 episodes never bothered to introduce into the series.
It is extremely disappointing that two black writers seemed to not know how to approach and develop a plot regarding one of the central problems black Americans face every day. A true "WTF" situation.
Not unexpected of the showrunners, the series' in-universe "town crier" refers to church goers as "zombified zealots". Amusing, since there's much zealotry to be found among those who live to make blanket insults against the faithful.
For a moment, I thought Ocean was going to turn out to be Safiyah's plant and betray Alice. thankfully, that was not the case. Regarding Kate, Ocean's truth bomb gives the show a out for the Kate character: if she continues to think she's Circe, she will eventually meet her end, and if she somehow regains her memory, i'm betting she will be written as having to come to terms with her crimes as Circe, how her past life in Gotham cannot be continued (since everyone--except Jacob--had moved on), and it would be in the best interest of all if she starts a new life elsewhere.
The next episode--"Armed Suspect"--airs on 6/6.
GRADE: D.
Luke is dumb.
Of course we are supposed to believe that he's gone against a life time of training, because Ryan made him feel like a wussy, by trying to deescalate the clearly racist cops earlier.
Of course we are supposed to believe that he's gone against a life time of training, because Ryan made him feel like a wussy, by trying to deescalate the clearly racist cops earlier.
Last edited:
Heavy-handed? I don't think so. Not after everything we've seen in the news over the past decade alone. Scriptwriters Gilbert and Houston were going easy on us out here in the audience.
Also, we've been getting set up for something like Luke being shot from the moment Ryan was introduced. A dozen episodes of set-up.
Also, we've been getting set up for something like Luke being shot from the moment Ryan was introduced. A dozen episodes of set-up.
Its heavy handed in that the series has committed next to no world building about the black experience with the police/criminal justice system in its 34 episodes, and suddenly, they're trying to address an astoundingly complex issue in 43 minutes. I call BS on that, not only from a screenwriting perspective (as in, it did not matter to them--until it did), but from my own and my people's negative (and worse) experiences in the real world with law enforcement, which is not going to be even marginally addressed in any effective manner in one Very Special Episode.
Compare that to the way the black experience with law enforcement abuses have been honestly layered and explored on Black Lightning, and this Batwoman episode comes off as anything other than a genuine addressing of this problem. And Luke? Until this episode, he's never had so much as a furrowed brow about his life as a black man vs. the criminal justice system, which should have been developed from the start. It was not.
Not even close.
Exactly. It's not the show that's heavy-handed, it's the damn world. The episode was certainly unsubtle, but these are unsubtle times we live in, and tiptoeing around the issues has only allowed them to get way out of hand.
What I liked was the way it explored the differences in experience, attitude, and perception among the different black characters. What would've been heavy-handed was if they were all the same in their reaction, but they were all different in how they'd experienced racism and how they tried to respond to it, and they disagreed with each other about it rather than it just being us-vs.-them. Yet in the eyes of the racist system, they were all alike and it was simply us-vs.-them.
Over in the Alice subplot, it took me way too long to remember that "You have our father's eyes" was a callback to what Alice said back in the pilot (and in the comics) to reveal that she was Beth and recognized Batwoman as Kate. So it's fitting that she says it again when she realizes Circe is actually Kate. Meanwhile, I guess the extensive burns are their excuse for the absence of Kate's tattoos.
Cut the bullshit. No one said anything about "tiptoeing" around the issue, but a series having the balls to establish this from the start, as for black people like me, this does not happen in a damned Very Special Episode, but its lived--I repeat lived every day by people who know better, and this series has failed miserably addressing / establishing that. So yes, its clumsy and heavy handed to drop all of that in one episode when it was the showrunners' damn job--with a black male lead character on the show from the beginning--to build on the black experience with the justice system, so it can be an effective commentary on that as the series moved forward similar to the serious way its handled on a series like Black Lightning.
It is clear to black viewers that this show has not cared to do what it takes to address that issue.
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. But was it really this show's job to do that in season 1, when Luke was just a supporting character to the Kane family? After all, as this episode underlined, he's somewhat insulated from all that by his social class and background. The whole point of his arc here was his relative naivete about these issues compared to someone like Ryan who's lived it all her life.
And this season has been dealing with that injustice from Ryan's perspective from the start. I mean, good grief, she was homeless and couldn't get a job because she'd been convicted of a crime she didn't commit, and even her own parole officer considered her a lost cause. How is that not about systemic racism? Just because it wasn't this blatant until now doesn't mean the foundations weren't being laid all along.
Aren't they doing it now, though? The show had a lot of plot stuff to deal with in the first half of the season. It made sense to cement Ryan's status as Batwoman and as the audience's identification figure, as well as develop her relationships and conflicts with the other characters, before getting around to a story like this. That's not apathy, it's pacing.
On another subject, I just found out that in the comics, Russell Tavaroff is the supervillain Menace, a former friend of Luke Fox's who became his nemesis after being driven mad by the use of Snakebite (which in the comics is a variant on Bane's superstrength drug Venom rather than the memory drug it is here). If I'd known that, I might've anticipated what would happen when he and Luke met. Next week, I'll have to be alert for Sophie or someone referring to Tavaroff as a menace.
Did they explain where this snakebite variant came from because isn't Sionis responsible for the supply?
Instead of shaming Jacob for his addiction which seems odd from one running an underground clinic it might've been more fruitful to have connected with his fostering of a shoot first mentality within the Crows though there's still time for that. The snakebite zombies all seemed white so the cops propensity to shoot is a problem even before being compounded with racism. I thought Ryan's comment's about "Blacks and horror don't mix" odd as seemingly an excuse for her apathy to the situation.
I'm not sure about making Tavaroff the face of the problems as it may take away from the systemic nature of the issue.
Ocean's actions were also a bit of an "um, ok...." moment.
Instead of shaming Jacob for his addiction which seems odd from one running an underground clinic it might've been more fruitful to have connected with his fostering of a shoot first mentality within the Crows though there's still time for that. The snakebite zombies all seemed white so the cops propensity to shoot is a problem even before being compounded with racism. I thought Ryan's comment's about "Blacks and horror don't mix" odd as seemingly an excuse for her apathy to the situation.
I'm not sure about making Tavaroff the face of the problems as it may take away from the systemic nature of the issue.
Ocean's actions were also a bit of an "um, ok...." moment.
What they said was that Sionis's cooks couldn't make the genuine article without Ocean and Angelique, so they attempted to recreate it on their own and got it wrong.
Mary wasn't shaming him for his addiction, she was hurt that he, as always, neglected her in favor of his other daughters, even after they were both lost to him.
it might've been more fruitful to have connected with his fostering of a shoot first mentality within the Crows though there's still time for that. The snakebite zombies all seemed white so the cops propensity to shoot is a problem even before being compounded with racism. I thought Ryan's comment's about "Blacks and horror don't mix" odd as seemingly an excuse for her apathy to the situation.
He wasn't the only face of it, though. There was that cop who trumped up (wow, that phrase has gained an extra layer of meaning) the "noise complaint" excuse to arrest Ryan and Luke, yet was all "It's okay, I understand, I'll help you" toward the white Snakebite victim, and then (I think it was the same cop) needed Batwoman to save his neck and was all grateful.
She said she feels the same pain he does but she's not trying to escape it. It felt like passing judgment to me but YMMV.
I didn't even recognize that it was the previous cop.
It was passing judgment, but not for the drugs. This has been going on since the beginning -- Mary feels that Jacob doesn't really accept her as a daughter, that he neglects her in favor of his biological daughters who aren't even there anymore. The drug thing is just the latest manifestation of that ongoing pattern.
I'm not sure that it was -- I'm not great at differentiating faces, especially in identical uniforms -- but by narrative logic, it made sense that it was the same guy.
Bit of a spoiler for the end of season 2.
The actress taking over as Kate Kane posted a picture, however something was visable.
Batwoman 1.0 vs Batwoman 2.0
Big Fight
The actress taking over as Kate Kane posted a picture, however something was visable.
Batwoman 1.0 vs Batwoman 2.0
Big Fight
"And Justice for All" was relatively decent, possibly the best of S2 so far.
More big spoilers
Similar threads
- Poll
