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Basics pt 1

at Quark's

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Of course, it's an awesome idea.

I mean, to have the crew marooned on a primeval planet and let them face the challenges of survival without any technology.

It's just that in order to get them into that situation, they first have to be conquered, and this happens in pt 1. But to me, this ep seems to portray janeway as, let's put it mildly, somewhat incompetent.

So, we'll risk the 150 lives of the crew -who probably had no say in the matter- to go straight into heavily infested Kazon space just on the chance that traitor Seska might have spoken the truth, and perhaps we might save one, say one, innocent (allbeit unwanted) child.

They pick up a stranded Kazon, but some pieces don't quite add up. However, for lack of anything better to do, they decide to follow the man's directions (to a certain extent).

They notice that they are being attacked repeatedly by supposedly independent kazon factions that shouldn't have the same agenda, at the same spot, causing damage to the secondary command processors, like they are 'slowly pecked to death by ducks'. Could there be a purpose behind it ?

Naaah, let's just continue on our route.

Then, when the battle comes, and that Kazon on voyager blows himself up real good because his blood itself was part of a explosive device (I'll grant the voyager crew that that was hard to see coming ), Janeway almost casually says 'self destruct sequence so-and-so', only to hear from the computer that that's impossible due to damage to the secondary processors.

Her eyes go wide. So, that's what the Kazon nasties were after -- to gain the ship relatively undamaged! Who could have thought!

Luckily, there's still Paris to save the day, in part 2...

Of course, Janeway does an awesome job leading her crew in survival in pt 2. But ultimately one that wouldn't have been needed had she been only a bit cleverer in pt. 1.

When they finally do regain Voyager, it's only at the cost of killing Seska and the baby in the process -- the baby being the reason they were there in the first place.

Is it me or is this just ... stupid ?

Edit: I've just reviewed part of the episode and seen that what I said was not entirely accurate. Janeway does order a reversal of course when they are attacted in the same spot for the at least fifth time. Unfortunately, by then it's far too late and she should have had more foresight...
 
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I was impressed how Tuvok was able to make bows and arrows so quickly with nothing but his bare hands as tools.

Chakotay wasn't even capable of making fire without cutting Janeway's hair. Although he did manage to make a solar still to produce water for 150 people with the torn remnants of one lousy uniform, that's nothing short of a miracle.


I wonder how they determined that the vegetables they got were even non toxic, never mind edible. In the past, before the invention of technology the only practical way was to sacrifice an animal by force-feeding it the stuff and wait a few hours to see if it gets sick or dies.

Who volunteered to play guinea pigs here?:lol:
 
Seska died, the baby did not. Cullah took him, seeing as the Doctor revealed that the baby was actually his and not Chakotay's.
 
I wonder how they determined that the vegetables they got were even non toxic, never mind edible. In the past, before the invention of technology the only practical way was to sacrifice an animal by force-feeding it the stuff and wait a few hours to see if it gets sick or dies.

Who volunteered to play guinea pigs here?:lol:

They could have had a great redshirt moment in the episode :lol:
 
Seska died, the baby did not. Cullah took him, seeing as the Doctor revealed that the baby was actually his and not Chakotay's.

You're right, I just got around to see the end of part 2 again (it was many years ago I'd last seen it). Perhaps I should have waited with posting, but I was a bit annoyed about those tactical mistakes after watching part 1 :)

I wonder how they determined that the vegetables they got were even non toxic, never mind edible. In the past, before the invention of technology the only practical way was to sacrifice an animal by force-feeding it the stuff and wait a few hours to see if it gets sick or dies.

There are procedures you can follow to minimize the risk (of course not eliminate all of it) when testing if a plant is edible, like these http://www.wikihow.com/Test-if-a-Plant-Is-Edible

It doesn't seem the crew applied any procedures like these though (then again, maybe alien plants are so different that it doesn't even matter if you try to minimize the risk by being prudent anyway? :)
 
Mutiny on the NCC-74656?

Yeah, I'd watch that.

Given Janeway's style of command, I'll say that on a real ship the likelihood of mutiny and take over of the ship by the mutineers would have been of about a hundred percent after one year, never mind seven. When people are stranded seventy years from home there is only so much abuse that they can take.
 
What you are not accounting for is that she forgets that large swaths of her crew exists, and they were completely ignored... Oh, and when things don't go her way, she sits in her room rocking for months at a time.

Swinging between those two foibles, it's possible that most of her crew forget that she is dangerous.
 
So, we'll risk the 150 lives of the crew -who probably had no say in the matter...
Of course they didn't. A ship is commanded by a captain, not a vote by the entire crew.

Yes of course, but that's not my point.

I could understand a captain who sacrifices her crew and herself in order to prevent a war (like in Yesterday's Enterprise), or to win a critical battle in a war, sacrificing perhaps 150 man to protect millions. And no, I don't think in that case a captain should ask permission to his/her crew, as it is what they signed up for, ultimately. It's part of the authority of the commanding officer.

But nothing like that is the case here. There is no critical war objective, no 'greater good', there are no thousands of lives at risk. Just one life at that point, and we are not even sure of that.

In the end, it's a simple numerical argument, and I'd say that those 150 lives of the crew are the greater good to protect here, not that of the baby.

Still, it would perhaps be the noble choice to go in and risk their lives. But as there is no military motive here (short of perhaps apprehending Seska), in effect Janeway is abusing her command power to help accomplish Chakotay a personal goal.

I'd say that is morally wrong. It would be a different matter though, had the entire crew agreed voluntarily to go there. Janeway just assumes they do and commands them.
 
What you are not accounting for is that she forgets that large swaths of her crew exists, and they were completely ignored... Oh, and when things don't go her way, she sits in her room rocking for months at a time.

Swinging between those two foibles, it's possible that most of her crew forget that she is dangerous.

I doubt that. Among 150 people there will always be a few to remind the others what they're missing and what they could do about it. There are only two ways that a ship like that could remain (politically) stable. 1) An absolute dictatorship where everyone is afraid for their life if they step out of the line
or 2) a democratic leadership where the captain is elected and his decisions reflect the will of the majority.

Here we have neither.
 
hey, everyone has their strengths but it was mentioned the wood sucked. but I agree with the water and uniform thing. I couldn't wrap my mind around that.

If it helps, the actors felt the same way about part I but by the time they get scripts it's done and not like they were paid to think anyway.
 
For out take sakes I'd like to see a fight break out over it on the planet :-) Crewmen Gone Wild.
 
I think it would have been great if she actually listened to Chakotay in this case. You could see seska's face when they weren't following and still go after them and result be the same for the drama.
 
Given a couple of months, Tuvok would have made a makeshift replicator using only Rocks, pieces of wood and some dirt...
 
re: tuvok's replicator.

Ha! Don't forget some contrived Technobabble in hopes to disable our reasoning ability.
 
Yes, somehow. :-)

Thinking about Basics I can't help but think how Hogan died. It might be harder to disobey Janeway but I I'd risk an argument at least to reason. There would be no way I'd go get those bones. If neelix wants he can go fetch.
 
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