I don't know if there's anything about this in the script books, but JMS once implied in a web post that there was a planned plot to revive Marcus in season 5 that depended on Ivanova.
Babylon 5 and O'Hare's departure.
- Thread starter Starkers
- Start date
I don't know if there's anything about this in the script books, but JMS once implied in a web post that there was a planned plot to revive Marcus in season 5 that depended on Ivanova.
It does seem that at some point Marcus was indeed planned to appear in Crusade. Why he didn't hasn't been covered yet (only one of the Crusade books has come out yet) but one possibility is that TNT didn't want any of the original cast around despite the fact that it was a sequel.
And for those wondering how he could be revived, a line in the episode was cut indicating that he was put into cryogenic suspension at a moment between life and death.
Jan
Yeah, as others have mentioned O'Hare and Doyle did not seem to get along - although that was probably not all of it.
But it is interesting to note that when O'Hare came back in WWE, he did not have a single scene with Doyle.
Which is kinda funny considering that you could really see their characters as being longtime best buddies during the first season. They must've been able to do a REALLY good job setting aside their personal and/or professional circumstances.
Yeah, as others have mentioned O'Hare and Doyle did not seem to get along - although that was probably not all of it.
But it is interesting to note that when O'Hare came back in WWE, he did not have a single scene with Doyle.
Which is kinda funny considering that you could really see their characters as being longtime best buddies during the first season. They must've been able to do a REALLY good job setting aside their personal and/or professional circumstances.
That's what actors do. Good actors, anyway.
That sounds better than Marcus being revived long after Ivanova's death, his having her cloned, her memories implanted, and faking a crash on a remote planet so that he could have her all to himself -- that story was like a disturbed stalker's fanwank.
^When you put it like that, sure, but if you actually read the story in context it's nothing like that at all. Indeed, as I recall the idea of being stranded on a distant paradise world actually came from (the original) Ivanova. He was fulfilling her dream as much as his own and part of the impetus was in learning what a sad and lonely life she had after he was frozen.
No it was there from the get-go. As I said though, the initial intention was for Takashima to be the Psi Corps mole (remember she'd previously served on Mars), there's even a clue to this in "The Gathering." As for Talia, there's hints that she's really Control all though 'A Spider in the Web' if you know what to look for.
I think it just seems more sudden because Thompson's departure made it happen a lot sooner than was intended and there may have been other episodes planned down the line to set this up more.
No it was there from the get-go. As I said though, the initial intention was for Takashima to be the Psi Corps mole (remember she'd previously served on Mars), there's even a clue to this in "The Gathering." As for Talia, there's hints that she's really Control all though 'A Spider in the Web' if you know what to look for.
I think it just seems more sudden because Thompson's departure made it happen a lot sooner than was intended and there may have been other episodes planned down the line to set this up more.
Last edited:
I haven't had the opportunity to read the story. There is a bootleg version available online, but it appears to have been transcribed by a dyslexic person. Even if Ivanova wanted to be stranded on a paradise planet, it doesn't necessarily mean that she wanted Marcus to be there. It might seem to her to be only slightly preferable to being chained up gimp-fashion in his basement. Very creepy...
I would have liked to see more of O'Hare before his final departure (maybe another 2 episodes) and I was mightily miffed at the way Julia Nickson was just dropped after his departure. She was his girlfriend but she was also a character in her own right and I don't accept that she had no purpose as a character without him. While I realise that elements of her story ended up with Anna Sheridan, she still deserved an episode or two to give her character some closure (beyond one of JMS's trademarked throwaway lines as two fingers to the nerdy fans).
Andrea's problem was that she was being offered a lot of lucrative guest roles that she was having to turn down for 7 episodes in B5, half of which were cameos. If she could have tied the two together she would have stayed and we would have had a more rounded relationship with Ivanova. Lyta was still slated to return but I would guess that she would have just had 2 or 3 guest appearances per year, especially if the Byron plot would have involved Ivanova as the main protagonist. I would really have liked Talia to return as Bester's henchman so they could go somewhere with the Kosh/Ironheart/telekinesis thread.
I get the impression that the producers could be a bit hard on their actors sometimes. I was at a convention in Blackpool where the whole cast including Claudia were doing sets on stage together just before it emerged that she would not be returning. Everybody was enthusiastic and friendly. She wanted to negotiate less screen time to do a movie but they couldn't agree the terms. Bonkers really since her presence would defintiely have elevated the final year a notch and Lochley only appeared in 8 or 10 episodes in any event.
Marcus was cute but his 'death' was very well handled. It's one of those few death scenes that feels appropriate because it was scripted not just because the actor wanted to leave. That's part of the reason why Christian's departure and return in the final episode work (despite the in between episodes suffering from her absence).
I would really have liked to see her and Marcus feature in the Day of the Dead actually. JMS should definitely get them back and film a few extra scenes for a Directors Cut of that episode!
Andrea's problem was that she was being offered a lot of lucrative guest roles that she was having to turn down for 7 episodes in B5, half of which were cameos. If she could have tied the two together she would have stayed and we would have had a more rounded relationship with Ivanova. Lyta was still slated to return but I would guess that she would have just had 2 or 3 guest appearances per year, especially if the Byron plot would have involved Ivanova as the main protagonist. I would really have liked Talia to return as Bester's henchman so they could go somewhere with the Kosh/Ironheart/telekinesis thread.
I get the impression that the producers could be a bit hard on their actors sometimes. I was at a convention in Blackpool where the whole cast including Claudia were doing sets on stage together just before it emerged that she would not be returning. Everybody was enthusiastic and friendly. She wanted to negotiate less screen time to do a movie but they couldn't agree the terms. Bonkers really since her presence would defintiely have elevated the final year a notch and Lochley only appeared in 8 or 10 episodes in any event.
Marcus was cute but his 'death' was very well handled. It's one of those few death scenes that feels appropriate because it was scripted not just because the actor wanted to leave. That's part of the reason why Christian's departure and return in the final episode work (despite the in between episodes suffering from her absence).
I would really have liked to see her and Marcus feature in the Day of the Dead actually. JMS should definitely get them back and film a few extra scenes for a Directors Cut of that episode!
She got quite a bit of 'screen time' in the "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" novel by Katheryn M. Drennan, though.
Perhaps. For the other side of the coin:
JMS said:
Pauln6 said:
With respect, where did you hear this? I've never seen any indication of that anywhere.
There's more to it than that. Without going to far into an old debate, Claudia herself set up the situation that occurred in Blackpool months before when she didn't sign the option extension while negotiations with TNT were underway. While other aspects of the situation could be debated, this is a fact she's never disputed.
Given that WB paid nothing for actors to appear in interviews for the DVDs, highly unlikely they'd pay the actors to actually appear in extra scenes. Or pay JMS to write them, for that matter.
Jan
I tried to re-watch B5 and was struck by how poor overall the acting is, I'm not going to single anyone out but a lot of the cast are regularly out-acted by the set.
Ha, that's true, and it didn't help that there were a few really good actors in the supporting cast like Andreas Katsulas & Peter Jurasik that showed everybody else up every time they were on screen.
As I said, it really needs to be read in context. And it's not as if she came to tied to a bed in a dim room with Barry White playing in the background. He did it to give her a chance at a happy life and if she chose to "be" with him then so be it. If not then they have a whole planet to themselves so if she wasn't interested it wouldn't have been too hard to avoid one another if it all went pear shaped.
Playing devil's advocate, perhaps what she was really worried about wasn't so much about money as exposure. If she's only appearing as the odd cameo in a cult Sci-Fi show and not able to take some higher profile jobs in the mean time then I suppose there would be a real danger of those offers drying up entierly. I gather a fair number of casting directors have short attention spans and little imagination.
Of course in hindsight she hasn't done much of note (acting wise) since B5, but then one can only act on what they know at the time. I don't know how much of a factor being married to Doyle at the time played into her decision, nor would it be fair to speculate. Still, you have to ask, even if she stayed on the show and given that those two were divorced not long after, do we seriously think a divorced couple would be able to work together on the same show? It's a fair bet that one way or another, one of them would have been gone before long.
And if I remember this right, that is exactly why Harlan Ellison was conspicuously absent from any of the DVD special features. He asked them to pay him for his time and they ran a mile.
Also Andreas Katsulas. Peter Jurasik, too, at first but it seems he relented and was interviewed for the DVDs.
Jan
You can't seriously call Andreas Katsulas and Peter Jurasik "supporting cast", can you? They had far too much screen time and were far too integrally a part of the over-arcing story to be considered anything less than in the "starting lineup".
We'll have to agree to disagree on the quality overall of the cast's acting. I do agree that there were members of the "secondary" and farther back cast who weren't exactly giving Emmy-award material. Cardboard villains being the greatest offense.
^Yeah, I've yet to see any naysayer provide a definitive example of what bad actors all the main cast supposedly were. There were some weaker episodes sure and (especially in season 1) some bloody awful guest actors, but that's hardly unusual for any show. Hell, check out the first two seasons of TNG some time and tell me most of that isn't utter tripe (and cost about twice as much per episodes as B5 IIRC.)
None of that detracts from the many excellent performances turned in by several guest or recurring characters; Bester, Morden, Neroon, Brother Theo, Cartagia, Regent Virini-every one of them a well acted and memorable performance and that's just off the top of my head.
None of that detracts from the many excellent performances turned in by several guest or recurring characters; Bester, Morden, Neroon, Brother Theo, Cartagia, Regent Virini-every one of them a well acted and memorable performance and that's just off the top of my head.
Similar threads
