Are you "aging out" of Star Trek?

[Some Sort of Lemur]

I have been slowly rewatching DS9 over the past ~eighteen months and have likewise myself “aging in,” in a sense. It was my family’s show as a kid, I’ve more-or-less rewatched the entire series once or twice since on DVD, but now in my thirties I’m noticing levels in performances that I really didn’t have the life experience to catch before, particularly wrt long-term relationships/marriage. I think also the times is having an effect too.

 

[Macintosh]

Honestly I think if anything I'm aging back into it.

 

[Eckauskas]

My dislike of nu-Trek isn't my age, it's the poorly written imitation of something I used to love.

I didn't watch Star Trek because it was socially progressive, it was just a pleasant bonus that it happened to be pretty progressive for a show about exploring space. I don't dislike seeing gay or trans people on my TV as long as their characters are well written and acted, that's the important thing. And I just don't see it anymore.

 

[Greg Cox]

Even Dax took about, what, five or six episodes to get a Dax-centric story where Terry Farrell was the main character?

I will argue that Dax didn't really get a consistent personality until Season Two.

I co-wrote one of the early DS9 novels, which we started writing before the show even aired, and I still remember struggling to get a handle on her character -- and being frustrated that one of the very first Dax-centric eps had her in a coma for most of the ep. (Well, that was helpful . . . not.) Our editor actually had to order us to give Dax more to do in the book because, at first, we were kinda writing around her . . . .

Point being, not every character arrives fully fleshed-out from Episode On.

 

[Turtletrekker]

My dislike of nu-Trek isn't my age, it's the poorly written imitation of something I used to love.

That's subjective. There were many people who were TOS fans who thought the same thing about TNG.

 

[Greg Cox]

That's subjective. There were many people who were TOS fans who thought the same thing about TNG.

Indeed. As a lifelong TOS fan, I was seriously underwhelmed by Season One of TNG.

And, yes, I would argue that all of the new CBS shows started out stronger, with better first seasons, than TNG. And are probably more rewatchable these days.

(Granted, the Dixon Hill ep was quite fun and clever.)

 

[cooleddie74]

Heck, all the other Berman Era shows started out stronger than TNG did. Even VOY, which really impressed me early on before lumbering into lazy "Diet TNG" storytelling habits and failing to properly exploit the Maquis and mismatched crews angles.

 

[fireproof78]

Voyager appealed to me a lot more than TNG with the premiere episode. At least we see people fighting back rather than the TNG crew watching Zorn get tortured.

But, sadly, the next episode was deeply frustrating and disappointing.

 

[Greg Cox]

Heck, all the other Berman Era shows started out stronger than TNG did. Even VOY, which really impressed me early on before lumbering into lazy "Diet TNG" storytelling habits and failing to properly exploit the Maquis and mismatched crews angles.

Voyager had arguably the best premiere episode of the TNG-era shows, briskly introducing the characters and situation while telling an exciting story as well. It was all very smoothly executed, without too much clunky exposition that I recall.

 

[1001001]

Voyager had arguably the best premiere episode of the TNG-era shows, briskly introducing the characters and situation while telling an exciting story as well. It was all very smoothly executed, without too much clunky exposition that I recall.

That’s because Voyager was awesome.

 

[Macintosh]

I will argue that Dax didn't really get a consistent personality until Season Two.

I co-wrote one of the early DS9 novels, which we started writing before the show even aired, and I still remember struggling to get a handle on her character -- and being frustrated that one of the very first Dax-centric eps had her in a coma for most of the ep. (Well, that was helpful . . . not.) Our editor actually had to order us to give Dax more to do in the book because, at first, we were kinda writing around her . . . .

Point being, not every character arrives fully fleshed-out from Episode On.

The production team and Terry Farrell have said as much themselves – they didn't really know what to do with or how to write for the character at the beginning (and as a result Farrell really had no idea how to play it), until Ira Steven Behr hit upon the idea of "wisecracking Action Barbie" in season two.

Indeed. As a lifelong TOS fan, I was seriously underwhelmed by Season One of TNG.

As a lifelong TNG fan, I was seriously underwhelmed by season one of TNG...

 

[Eckauskas]

That's subjective. There were many people who were TOS fans who thought the same thing about TNG.

Of course it's subjective, that's the whole point of the thread.

 

[Set Harth]

As a lifelong TNG fan, I was seriously underwhelmed by season one of TNG...

damn Romulans

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I recently watched the first seasons of TOS, TNG, Voyager and Enterprise at the same time, alternating between episodes, and TNG really did start weak. But it was Enterprise's first year that went straight to the bottom of my rankings. At least TNG's early stories always had enthusiasm.

Voyager S1 was fine I thought, not great, not bad. Though I reckon Voyager didn't really hit its peak until it ended.

That's not an insult, I think it's easier to enjoy the series when you're not waiting for it to get better, hoping that it'll build on its premise and deal with the consequences of past stories. If you already know that it's storytelling will never move past 1995, you can appreciate it for the show that it is. Personally I enjoyed it more the second time around, when I was watching it alongside TNG, instead of with DS9 and B5.

 

[The Wormhole]

I actually thought Enterprise had a reasonably strong first season, for a Berman era show. Yes, you can see the network interference gutting things, but there were still some intriguing things set up throughout the season, notably the Vulcan/Andorian conflict and the "Space Boomer" culture amongst the freighters. Even the much lamented TCW had some intriguing aspects to it that season, and the adjacent storyline about the Tandarans persecuting civilian Suliban and later taking an interest in Archer, with them spying on him in the Risa episode was promising.

It's the second season where the show took a slump. Yes, there are some enjoyable episodes there, but a lot of the things which were set up in the first season were either ignored in the second or just given lip service and ultimately it was all shoved aside by the end to bring in the Xindi storyline.

 

[Farscape One]

Voyager had arguably the best premiere episode of the TNG-era shows, briskly introducing the characters and situation while telling an exciting story as well. It was all very smoothly executed, without too much clunky exposition that I recall.

VOY and DS9 were, for me, the two best series premieres in the franchise. Pretty much a tie. So I definitely agree that it was smoothly executed.

Though "CARETAKER" had an advantage none of the other pilots had... a lot of what would have been clunky exposition, specifically the Maquis and everything related to them, was already explained in late TNG season 7 and DS9 season 2. Those shows did that work for them. This allowed the pilot to focus MUCH more on the main story at hand.

I'm not saying that was a negative thing. Quite the opposite, I thought that was an excellent use of existing shows to help spring forward the upcoming new one. Plus, it helped maintain the cohesive feeling of these shows being part of a shared universe.

That’s because Voyager was awesome.

I wouldn't go that far. I liked it a lot, and had some wonderful episodes peppered throughout.

But awesome? I can't put it that high. Too much wasted potential. Too much network interference.

 

[Lynx]

Definitely not!

Even if I'm not too happy with the current development of Trek, there is simply too much good stuff to watch to abandon it.

I actually re-watched VOYs pilote episode Caretaker yesterday and even if that series became a disappointment for me later on, I still get the sam efeeling of excitement when I watch it now as I did in 1998.

As for aging, it's a curse which must be fought so I refuse to age.

 

[Leviathan]

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[Greg Cox]

That's not an insult, I think it's easier to enjoy the series when you're not waiting for it to get better, hoping that it'll build on its premise and deal with the consequences of past stories. If you already know that it's storytelling will never move past 1995, you can appreciate it for the show that it is. Personally I enjoyed it more the second time around, when I was watching it alongside TNG, instead of with DS9 and B5.

This is true. A few years back, I had occasion to rewatch some ENTERPRISE episodes for research purposes and found it held up better than I expected.

Now that I wasn't expecting it to be a bold, new, 21st-century take on the Trek, I enjoyed it more.

 

[Turtletrekker]

This is true. A few years back, I had occasion to rewatch some ENTERPRISE episodes for research purposes and found it held up better than I expected.

Now that I wasn't expecting it to be a bold, new, 21st-century take on the Trek, I enjoyed it more.

The first two seasons suffered, like Voyager before it, from trying too hard to emulate TNG. Switching up the format for the final two seasons was the best thing for the show.

I will say that enjoy the overall through line with the events that lead to the formation of the Federation. "The Andorian Incident" is my favorite episode of the first season and introduces my favorite supporting character in Shran.

Shran and Soval building a relationship and finding trust, and then maintaining that trust after Romulan shenanigans threatened to tear everything apart is a great overall arc.

And bringing all of these geopolitical entities together in response to a power that threatened all of them with their aforementioned shenanigans was a satisfying through line that brought us to two of the best episodes of the show. I'm of course talking of the final two episodes of the show, "Demons" and "Terra Prime". Yes, the final two episodes. I said what I said.