Methinks people for whom DNR is the norm and have their flat screen TVs running in continuous motion smoothing are offended by film grain.
Is it time to put Star Trek to rest?
- Thread starter Dar70
- Start date
That's Digital Noise Reduction, not Do Not Resuscitate, I presume!
I dunno, both answers might be true.
But only just.
PIC S03E10 400 million minutes watched
VS
SNW S02E08 395 million minutes watched
Yes, they did.
Picard S3 accumulated 986 million watched minutes, Strange New Worlds 2143.
But we have incomplete data from both.
Picard was seven times not in the Top 10 chart (Nielsen started publishing data from Paramount+ only after PIC S03E03 was released) and Strange New Worlds S2 was four times not in the Top 10 chart.
Did somebody say "charts"?
Code:
Show MM Rank
PIC S03E01 -
PIC S03E02 -
PIC S03E03 <402 <10
PIC S03E04 <409 <10
PIC S03E05 310 09
PIC S03E06 <334 <10
PIC S03E07 <337 <10
PIC S03E08 <279 <10
PIC S03E09 276 10
PIC S03E10 400 09
SNW S02E01 338 07
SNW S02E02 393 08
SNW S02E03 <381 <10
SNW S02E04 351 09
SNW S02E05 <346 <10
SNW S02E06 <324 <10
SNW S02E07 <324 <10
SNW S02E08 395 09
SNW S02E09 362 07
SNW S02E10 304 10
STD S05E01 <346 <10
STD S05E02 <346 <10
STD S05E03 257 10
STD S05E04 241 09
STD S05E05 285 08
STD S05E06 <279 <10
STD S05E07 <245 <10
STD S05E08 <219 <10
STD S05E09 <220 <10
STD S05E10 269 10"<" means the show was not in the Top 10 and the number behind are the "million minutes watched" of the show in 10th place.
In my opinion? Probably not. Again, love SNW. But it’s definitely a niche show. But if Star Trek is going to survive, it needs to evolve. It needs to focus on a bigger audience, not just the die hard fan base. But the general audience isn’t going to care about something like the concepts we’ve seen from Legacy or Year One. Both are more niche.
No, I think I put it in another thread, but if Trek is going to survive, it needs to put the last 59 years of Star Trek aside and start all the way over. Use it is a starting point, sure. Have Kirk, have Spock, have McCoy, have the Enterprise.
Then blow everything else the fuck up and start over.
It’s probably not a very popular opinion here, but it’s the way to get the masses watching. Any Star Trek series has the weight of almost 1000 episodes behind it. That’s a lot of homework.
They did that in 2009
Who is the "current" audience? I've been at this for over fifty years. Literally the only Trekkies who have been watching it longer than me are the ones who watched it live. I've been at this long enough that I remember when Trekkie was an acceptable term.
So 1) I'm not necessarily the pot of gold that they are going for. And b) SNW is my jam and is pretty much the show I've been waiting for since about 1979ish. Certainly 1987.
If you can manage an Expanse level of "hard sci-fi" and still keep the super positive vibe that SNW has (that is more alien to current media outside of possibly Ted Lasso than anything TOS ever did) then sign me up.
But since no-one has done what you suggest in almost 60 years of Star Trek you'll pardon if I'm not holding my breath.
There are big chunks of SNW that I would change. But I would leave more of it than I would change. ("There's a Klingon battle cruiser 100 km to port" while showing both ships on screen is something EVERY Star Trek is guilty of.)
The part that isn't covered by "most part" is big enough to fly a planet sized space amoeba through. And one could (and I will) argue that that is what makes Star Trek.
Is that what Gatwa was missing? Daleks? Throw in one of those and all is well? I'm... Skeptical.
They did, and guess what? It made money. I bet they could do it on TV as well and get similar results.
But that's the problem. They have essentially tried to make the show into TOS. Uhura, Scott, Chapel, Kirk. We don't need all that nostalgia or pandering. I don't think all die hards wanted that. I wanted to See Pike and HIS crew from the Menagerie. Not half of the TOS crew. Did they think Sticking Yellow,Blue and Red uniforms and an Updated version of the TOS Enterprise is what fans wanted??? I Personally wanted stories that make some sense to the overall narrative of previous Star Trek. But instead they have relied on heavily rewriting previous Trek.
I know that doesn't bother a lot of you. That's cool. But it does bother a lot of fans.
I would be completely Ok with it if they had not proclaimed prime universe. But they wanted their cake and eat it to. I'm sure we will get more throwaway lines before the end of the series that suggest that time travel has altered everything and TOS is now no longer the way it happened. But whatever...
But that's the problem. They have essentially tried to make the show into TOS. Uhura, Scott, Chapel, Kirk. We don't need all that nostalgia or pandering. I don't think all die hards wanted that. I wanted to See Pike and HIS crew from the Menagerie. Not half of the TOS crew. Did they think Sticking Yellow,Blue and Red uniforms and an Updated version of the TOS Enterprise is what fans wanted??? I Personally wanted stories that make some sense to the overall narrative of previous Star Trek. But instead they have relied on heavily rewriting previous Trek.
I know that doesn't bother a lot of you. That's cool. But it does bother a lot of fans.
I would be completely Ok with it if they had not proclaimed prime universe. But they wanted their cake and eat it to. I'm sure we will get more throwaway lines before the end of the series that suggest that time travel has altered everything and TOS is now no longer the way it happened. But whatever...
Unfortunately, media is steeped in nostalgia at the moment. It’s not just Star Trek. It’s a trend. Why do you think that the MCU brought back the other Spideys for No Way Home? Why do you think that the next Avengers movie is bringing back the old school X-Men? Why do you think the score for the new Superman relies so heavily on the Williams score? Why do you think we’ve had so many remakes and continuations of shows from 20-30 years ago? Because nostalgia is in. Because people are buying it up. It’s bringing back those core fanbases to the table. And if they don’t like it, they’re like you, either watching to criticize it or hate watch it.
Want to send them a message about what you want? Stop watching what they put out. But we both know that won’t happen.
Although I do agree with your overall point, I feel compelled to point out that at this point, the John Williams theme is probably considered as defining a trait of Superman as the blue spandex suit with red cape and stylized S on the chest. I'm sure there are many who when thinking of Superman instantly imagine hearing the Williams theme. Which is actually something I'd recently been thinking about Williams and his legacy to the movie music industry. His themes for Star Wars and Indiana Jones have also become such an integral part of the identity of those franchises that it's also impossible to think of either one without hearing their distinctive musical themes either.
Sorry for the tangent.
Totally fair. I honestly debated even putting it in but felt it was timely. You’re right that Williams’ scores have become iconic in so many ways. But while it is a part of the fabric of the character, is it needed? Can you have Superman without that awe inspiring fanfare? I think you can. You mention Star Wars, yes, the Main Title theme is synonymous. But the streaming fare on Disney+ doesn’t always use it. In fact I’m not even sure who wrote or what is the little theme that comes over the faces and the words Star Wars on that service. But it ain’t Williams.
ETA: The Disney+ Star Wars fanfare was written by Ludwig Goransson.
ETA2: Well, I don’t know actually. I’m seeing other places stating it was written by Joseph Shirley. Regardless, not Williams.
Maybe I need to put this in Controversial Opinions:
No it doesn't.
I'm not saying it can't. But after a random Google search for "best Star Trek" here is a top 10 that seems fairly representative:
1. The Inner Light
2. The City on the Edge of Forever
3. The Best of Both Worlds
4. Trials and Tribble-ations
5. The Best of Both Worlds Part II
6. In the Pale Moonlight
7. Mirror, Mirror
8. Yesterday's Enterprise
9. The Visitor
10. The Measure of a Man
Obviously this is not a hard and fast "this is what makes Star Trek good" list. But it's not exactly out of left field either.
The only ones that even have anything approaching a philosophical quandary are In the Pale Moonlight and The Measure of a Man. And neither of those would be a commentary of "current events". Larger philosophical issues, perhaps. And yeah, that's good. "Ripped from the headlines commentary"? Despite its legend, it's never been Star Trek's strong suit.
As for "subtle"? What Star Trek commentary has ever been subtle? Roddenberry's "I'm just like Jonathan Swift" ideals notwithstanding. The Mark of Gideon? The Voyage Home? (TVH is more notable because it leans into "Star Trek talks about social issues" than any "We really raised awareness on whale conservation". They could not have picked a less controversial "issue" than if they had said "School busses should stop at train tracks.") Let That Be Your Last Battlefield is legendary. But it isn't Star Trek's finest.
Even A Private Little War is more famous for the fact that it even approaches the Vietnam conflict. To the point where nobody seems to know what the outcome of the episode is.
Well. RTD is a fan.
Yup. That's like saying that a new James Bond that uses the John Barry theme is "steeped in nostalgia". The new score uses the theme, but it's hardly a throwback score. (What Gunn SHOULD have used is the theme to either the Fleischer cartoons or The Adventures of Superman!)
No it doesn't.
I'm not saying it can't. But after a random Google search for "best Star Trek" here is a top 10 that seems fairly representative:
1. The Inner Light
2. The City on the Edge of Forever
3. The Best of Both Worlds
4. Trials and Tribble-ations
5. The Best of Both Worlds Part II
6. In the Pale Moonlight
7. Mirror, Mirror
8. Yesterday's Enterprise
9. The Visitor
10. The Measure of a Man
Obviously this is not a hard and fast "this is what makes Star Trek good" list. But it's not exactly out of left field either.
The only ones that even have anything approaching a philosophical quandary are In the Pale Moonlight and The Measure of a Man. And neither of those would be a commentary of "current events". Larger philosophical issues, perhaps. And yeah, that's good. "Ripped from the headlines commentary"? Despite its legend, it's never been Star Trek's strong suit.
As for "subtle"? What Star Trek commentary has ever been subtle? Roddenberry's "I'm just like Jonathan Swift" ideals notwithstanding. The Mark of Gideon? The Voyage Home? (TVH is more notable because it leans into "Star Trek talks about social issues" than any "We really raised awareness on whale conservation". They could not have picked a less controversial "issue" than if they had said "School busses should stop at train tracks.") Let That Be Your Last Battlefield is legendary. But it isn't Star Trek's finest.
Even A Private Little War is more famous for the fact that it even approaches the Vietnam conflict. To the point where nobody seems to know what the outcome of the episode is.
Well. RTD is a fan.
Yup. That's like saying that a new James Bond that uses the John Barry theme is "steeped in nostalgia". The new score uses the theme, but it's hardly a throwback score. (What Gunn SHOULD have used is the theme to either the Fleischer cartoons or The Adventures of Superman!)
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