Are the majority of male fans of TOS chauvinists?

[Proximity_Phaser]

Red Ranger said:...
Another poster mentioned an interesting possibility, that some who like TOS are older, and that it's possible some of them may hold less enlightened opinons.

I find this sort of ageism disgusting, yet typical of the sort of whippersnappers that like newfangled Trek.
The asinine assumption that youth and inexperience will somehow lead to more "enlightened" opinions, and the willingness of these young pups to lump us old farts in the same category is the real prejudice of today, and ALL of these YOUNGSTERS do it, probably because of that disgusting music they listen to nowadays while watching that Frenchie, the Irish broad and that nice colored man try to captain those pale imitations of the Real Enterprise, by gum!

If I could only get my teeth back in I'd show these upstarts a thing or two.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

^^

Kids today are pretty damned sexist--indeed, a great many girls, who've learned it's easier to be cute than smart--are right there, along for the ride. Girls Gone Wild, anyone? I mean, these are college girls...

You've come a long way, baby! :thumbsup:

 

[Neopeius]

Red Ranger said:

Neopeius said:

Red Ranger said:
I mean, Rama has a point when he mentions the love for the miniskirt but the hate for later ST series.

Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.

I dislike Modern Trek because it's sucks horribly, not because I have some deepseated prejudice against women in positions of power.

I like TOS because it's a good show, not because the costumes are silly.

Neopeius,

Oh, execute your prime function already and sterilize yourself!

Bravo for you that you don't have prejudice toward women in power (just don't pat yourself on the back too hard, pal -- you might hurt yourself).

That doesn't mean there aren't others who are. Another poster mentioned an interesting possibility, that some who like TOS are older, and that it's possible some of them may hold less enlightened opinons.

I disagree with you completely that new Trek is terrible. As Rama pointed out, if it sucked so bad, would it have won all the awards it did? Or would it be so popular?

I remember when TNG was about to come out, nearly 20 years ago. I had a friend who felt that it was sacrilege to have a new show, because the only real ST was TOS. Then, after watching TNG, she changed her mind.

The "TOS is the one true ST" is just so silly. Yes, without TOS, there wouldn't be the other shows. And TOS has a nostalgic place in my heart and mind. But I (and others) feel the new series have carried the torch admirably, if not always successfully.

For the record, I like the first three ST series, but not the last two, although I've enjoyed some eps of VOY and ENT.

Red Ranger

Exactly why it's silly to try to paint the fans with a single brush. You have your cutoff too--it's just later than mine.

And for the record, I very much looked forward to TNG. I was just so disappointed in the first many episodes that it took me years to accept that there were a few decent shows. DS9 simply bored me. Voyager was really really bad. I didn't even bother with Enterprise.

So I'm not a "One true Trek"ker. I'm a "One decent Trek"ker. I'm also 32 which really isn't old enough to be a fart or young enough to be a whippersnapper.

I even allow my wife to leave the house and occasionally use the familiar "you" instead of "thee". I'm not about to let her wear pants, however, the hussy.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I can't honestly speak for the majority of male fans. I can only speak for myself. I am not a chauvinist. On the other hand I'm not one of those limp wristed PC eunuchs who censors his stream of thought so as not to offend the butch dyke feminists out there. Because I'm so loose lipped I'm considered chauvinist by many women I know. But I'm not a feminist. I think men are every bit as inept, incompetent and stupid as the chicks are. I don't discriminate

And yeah I like the titties. And the crotch shots are nice too. I mean women have titties and crotches in order to attract and fuck men. I mean what would women do if they couldn't ensnare men in their snatches? I guess they'd munch on a lot of rug and then die out. I dunno.

Of all of the Trek series I have to say that I find TNG the most sexist. Whereas Star Trek says that women are open and free about their sexuality and are completely in control of their lives and in some cases their men TNG says the opposite. TNG says that women are aloof and cool and professional and that trying to have sex with them is just like attempting to rape them. Look at Troi the perpetual rape victim? How many times was she raped or used sexually or turned into an old hag skank whore? Tons! Sex is rape on TNG. Sex is freedom on Star Trek.

Star Trek empowers women.

TNG places them on a PC pedestal. It's condescending.

Women like to fuck! Women have to fuck! My wife loves to fuck! If she could she'd fuck twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week!

Women must fuck! It ain't sexist it's just human nature!

 

[USS Mariner]

Admiral James Kirk said:
I can't honestly speak for the majority of male fans. I can only speak for myself. I am not a chauvinist. On the other hand I'm not one of those limp wristed PC eunuchs who censors his stream of thought so as not to offend the butch dyke feminists out there. Because I'm so loose lipped I'm considered chauvinist by many women I know. But I'm not a feminist. I think men are every bit as inept, incompetent and stupid as the chicks are. I don't discriminate

And yeah I like the titties. And the crotch shots are nice too. I mean women have titties and crotches in order to attract and fuck men. I mean what would women do if they couldn't ensnare men in their snatches? I guess they'd munch on a lot of rug and then die out. I dunno.

Of all of the Trek series I have to say that I find TNG the most sexist. Whereas Star Trek says that women are open and free about their sexuality and are completely in control of their lives and in some cases their men TNG says the opposite. TNG says that women are aloof and cool and professional and that trying to have sex with them is just like attempting to rape them. Look at Troi the perpetual rape victim? How many times was she raped or used sexually or turned into an old hag skank whore? Tons! Sex is rape on TNG. Sex is freedom on Star Trek.

Star Trek empowers women.

TNG places them on a PC pedestal. It's condescending.

Women like to fuck! Women have to fuck! My wife loves to fuck! If she could she'd fuck twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week!

Women must fuck! It ain't sexist it's just human nature!

+9 for truth.

 

[Proximity_Phaser]

Hmmmppphh.....Unenlightened.




Thank God.

 

[Red Ranger]

Proximity_Phaser said:

Red Ranger said:...
Another poster mentioned an interesting possibility, that some who like TOS are older, and that it's possible some of them may hold less enlightened opinons.

I find this sort of ageism disgusting, yet typical of the sort of whippersnappers that like newfangled Trek.
The asinine assumption that youth and inexperience will somehow lead to more "enlightened" opinions, and the willingness of these young pups to lump us old farts in the same category is the real prejudice of today, and ALL of these YOUNGSTERS do it, probably because of that disgusting music they listen to nowadays while watching that Frenchie, the Irish broad and that nice colored man try to captain those pale imitations of the Real Enterprise, by gum!

If I could only get my teeth back in I'd show these upstarts a thing or two.

Proximity Phaser,

Hey, just wondering -- did you find your teeth yet, you old geezer? Or did you forget which glass you put them in?

Seriously, bud, I'm in the "old fart" categorgy, compared with some of the "young punk tadpoles" on this BBS -- I'm 44. So I think I have a pretty good understanding of my generation.

So I'll be taking my pills for RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome) while you stumble across your teeth and your tube of Poly-Grip!

Red Ranger

 

[Red Ranger]

Neopeius said:

Red Ranger said:

Neopeius said:

Red Ranger said:
I mean, Rama has a point when he mentions the love for the miniskirt but the hate for later ST series.

Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.

I dislike Modern Trek because it's sucks horribly, not because I have some deepseated prejudice against women in positions of power.

I like TOS because it's a good show, not because the costumes are silly.

Neopeius,

Oh, execute your prime function already and sterilize yourself!

Bravo for you that you don't have prejudice toward women in power (just don't pat yourself on the back too hard, pal -- you might hurt yourself).

That doesn't mean there aren't others who are. Another poster mentioned an interesting possibility, that some who like TOS are older, and that it's possible some of them may hold less enlightened opinons.

I disagree with you completely that new Trek is terrible. As Rama pointed out, if it sucked so bad, would it have won all the awards it did? Or would it be so popular?

I remember when TNG was about to come out, nearly 20 years ago. I had a friend who felt that it was sacrilege to have a new show, because the only real ST was TOS. Then, after watching TNG, she changed her mind.

The "TOS is the one true ST" is just so silly. Yes, without TOS, there wouldn't be the other shows. And TOS has a nostalgic place in my heart and mind. But I (and others) feel the new series have carried the torch admirably, if not always successfully.

For the record, I like the first three ST series, but not the last two, although I've enjoyed some eps of VOY and ENT.

Red Ranger

Exactly why it's silly to try to paint the fans with a single brush. You have your cutoff too--it's just later than mine.

And for the record, I very much looked forward to TNG. I was just so disappointed in the first many episodes that it took me years to accept that there were a few decent shows. DS9 simply bored me. Voyager was really really bad. I didn't even bother with Enterprise.

So I'm not a "One true Trek"ker. I'm a "One decent Trek"ker. I'm also 32 which really isn't old enough to be a fart or young enough to be a whippersnapper.

I even allow my wife to leave the house and occasionally use the familiar "you" instead of "thee". I'm not about to let her wear pants, however, the hussy.

Neopeius,

Hey, when I read your reply, I started to "sniff" get a tear in my eye, but I promised myself "gulp" that I wouldn't cry!

Well-reasoned. I think I did say it was a possibility, not a certainty. And if you reread my posts, I think I did clearly say I didn't think it was the majority -- just a few hidebound old fossils!

BTW, I hope your wife, when she reads your post, takes your "royal sceptre" and bonks you on the head with it!

Red Ranger

 

[Red Ranger]

Admiral James Kirk said:
I can't honestly speak for the majority of male fans. I can only speak for myself. I am not a chauvinist. On the other hand I'm not one of those limp wristed PC eunuchs who censors his stream of thought so as not to offend the butch dyke feminists out there. Because I'm so loose lipped I'm considered chauvinist by many women I know. But I'm not a feminist. I think men are every bit as inept, incompetent and stupid as the chicks are. I don't discriminate

And yeah I like the titties. And the crotch shots are nice too. I mean women have titties and crotches in order to attract and fuck men. I mean what would women do if they couldn't ensnare men in their snatches? I guess they'd munch on a lot of rug and then die out. I dunno.

Of all of the Trek series I have to say that I find TNG the most sexist. Whereas Star Trek says that women are open and free about their sexuality and are completely in control of their lives and in some cases their men TNG says the opposite. TNG says that women are aloof and cool and professional and that trying to have sex with them is just like attempting to rape them. Look at Troi the perpetual rape victim? How many times was she raped or used sexually or turned into an old hag skank whore? Tons! Sex is rape on TNG. Sex is freedom on Star Trek.

Star Trek empowers women.

TNG places them on a PC pedestal. It's condescending.

Women like to fuck! Women have to fuck! My wife loves to fuck! If she could she'd fuck twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week!

Women must fuck! It ain't sexist it's just human nature!

Admiral,

Whoa! Easy there, tiger! People are going to think you've overdosed on your Cialis and Zoloft, all at the same time!

Troi a "perpetual rape victim"? Going a bit too far there, Sparky! Wasn't there an ep where Uhura was almost raped, too? ("Gamesters of Triskelion"). I must say I think your interpretation of sexuality on TNG is waaaaaay off the mark.

The only thing I fault TNG for is not showing enough of their characters in healthy, ongoing relationships, which includes sex, as well as intimacy.

I definitely think they wasted 7 years not having Riker and Troi, or for that matter, Picard and Beverly, consummate their respective relationships. They did show O'Brien and his wife, Keiko, and that was an example of a healthy relationship. And didn't Worf get together with his old flame, K'Ehylar (I can never properly spell her name, damnit!)?

Also, at the end of your little "rant," you sounded a bit like Frank (Dennis Hopper) in "Blue Velvet," "Let's f**k! I'll f**k anyting that moves!"

Red Ranger

P.S.: You must've loved the Britney Spears "crotch shots" photos. Hope you enjoyed them while downing a case of Ripple!

 

[The Mule]

"Are the majority of male TOS fans chauvinists?"

to wit, i ask:

"Are the majority of caucasian "Friends" fans white supremists?"

(or, i would hope that being a Star Trek fan would be anethema to such worldviews...)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Ensign Khan said:
I feel compelled to point out that TOS was produced in the late 60's when women were more or less portrayed this way in just about every TV show and film. I don't like the way women were portayed either, but it was a sign of the times.

If it makes you feel any better, I am running a TOS-era Star Trek RPG where the captain is a woman and in command of a Connie. And she wears pants, no skirts on this ship

Ironic, that in a thread about supposed "sexism" in Trek, we refer to the ship's class as "Connie".

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Red Ranger said:

Admiral,

Whoa! Easy there, tiger! People are going to think you've overdosed on your Cialis and Zoloft, all at the same time!

Damn straight!

Troi a "perpetual rape victim"? Going a bit too far there, Sparky!

I really don't. Now it's been years since I've watched TNG on a regular basis but it really treated sex like the plague.

I remember there was an episode were Troi was mentally raped.

There was another episode where she was used by some guy sexually so he'd get a shot at a wormhole or something.

There was another episode where Troi got possessed or something and fucked every guy on the ship and turned into an old hag.

In Naked Now Tasha fucked Data and then acted ashamed that she had the hootchie coo.

The two times Crushed unzipped her pussy strange things happened. The first time her loved turned into a woman. The second time her lover was a ghost and it was treated like she was being exploited sexually even though she came several times.

Then of course there are the two mind rapes in Nemesis. I'm sure we could find even more sex = rape or abuse metaphors in TNG.

Wasn't there an ep where Uhura was almost raped, too? ("Gamesters of Triskelion").

Why yes. And Rand as well. But there were other episodes where women used their sexuality on men. Uhura used her sexuality to woo Mirror Sulu in Mirror, Mirror. Classic Trek had give and take when it came to female empowerment.

In TNG women were either being used and abused by men or they asexual. There was no middle ground.

I must say I think your interpretation of sexuality on TNG is waaaaaay off the mark.

I respect that but I also respectfully disagree. TNG never treated sex as a natural human impulse. It was always a negative thing.

Also, at the end of your little "rant," you sounded a bit like Frank (Dennis Hopper) in "Blue Velvet," "Let's f**k! I'll f**k anyting that moves!"

Red Ranger

I'll take that as a compliment.

P.S.: You must've loved the Britney Spears "crotch shots" photos. Hope you enjoyed them while downing a case of Ripple!

I haven't seen those shots. In all honesty I'm one of the most pussy whipped married men there is. My wife would bite my pecker off if I looked for pussy pics of Britney.

 

[Neopeius]

Red Ranger said:


BTW, I hope your wife, when she reads your post, takes your "royal sceptre" and bonks you on the head with it!

I need no scepter other than the rod I have her break from the tree. We do not indulge in heretical frippery...

 

[RAMA]

Red Ranger said:


I disagree with you completely that new Trek is terrible. As Rama pointed out, if it sucked so bad, would it have won all the awards it did? Or would it be so popular?

I remember when TNG was about to come out, nearly 20 years ago. I had a friend who felt that it was sacrilege to have a new show, because the only real ST was TOS. Then, after watching TNG, she changed her mind.


Red Ranger

Some of us have moved on, others are still back in 1987 saying "sacrilege", and a few other hapless people think ST ended in 1979. Sad and pathetic I know, but that's why we have the TOS board...to keep those people from infecting the rest of the normal people.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Neopeius said:

RAMA said:

Neopeius said:

Red Ranger said:
I mean, Rama has a point when he mentions the love for the miniskirt but the hate for later ST series.

Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated.

I dislike Modern Trek because it's sucks horribly, not because I have some deepseated prejudice against women in positions of power.

I like TOS because it's a good show, not because the costumes are silly.

Nomad sterilize, sterlize!

Well I guess the new treks will have to give back and reject their 100s of Emmy award nominations, Peabody, Writer's Guild, Saturns, and Hugos, and we should immediately forget that any of them existed. Obviously the fact that there were 3 shows with varying episodes of quality instead of just one blanket storyline for all, and STNG, DS9 produced superior ratings to TOS means they were no good! I see the light now!

Ah. Everyone likes new Trek, so I should too...

No thanks. Women in power frighten me.

Nope, but pronouncing the new ones as inferior and that everyone should think so is also rather 1 dimensional thinking and insulting. Fair enough.

I guess my attitudes about women are more mature than yours, both in regards to physical and sexual power. And happily so.

RAMA

 

[Red Ranger]

Brutal Strudel said:
^^

Kids today are pretty damned sexist--indeed, a great many girls, who've learned it's easier to be cute than smart--are right there, along for the ride. Girls Gone Wild, anyone? I mean, these are college girls...

You've come a long way, baby! :thumbsup:

Brutal,

Good points. But let's not forget that society at large has made these young women and men feel it's "OK" to "behave badly" and to value women only if they're willing to flash their boobies. And some women take their cues from such stellar characters as Anna Nicole Smith, who married some real old guy to get his money.

Not saying I agree with such disgusting sentiments, just pointing out that these young folks do take their cues from others -- these attitudes didn't occur in a vacuum!

In fact, there's an interesting book on this phenomenon called, "Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture," written by Ariel Levy. It's basic premise: the women's liberation movement has mutated in American culture to allow women to freely act as sex objects and it's OK. I heard the author interviewed on National Public Radio on the subject and she did acknowledge that while it's not what she thinks of as women's liberation, people of a younger generation are certainly free to interpet it the way they feel is valid.

Interesting stuff. I might actually buy the book and read it.

Red Ranger

 

[Red Ranger]

RAMA said:

Red Ranger said:


I disagree with you completely that new Trek is terrible. As Rama pointed out, if it sucked so bad, would it have won all the awards it did? Or would it be so popular?

I remember when TNG was about to come out, nearly 20 years ago. I had a friend who felt that it was sacrilege to have a new show, because the only real ST was TOS. Then, after watching TNG, she changed her mind.


Red Ranger

Some of us have moved on, others are still back in 1987 saying "sacrilege", and a few other hapless people think ST ended in 1979. Sad and pathetic I know, but that's why we have the TOS board...to keep those people from infecting the rest of the normal people.

RAMA

Rama,

Generally, I'm on your frequency. I'm kind of "old school" about some things, but willing to be open about new interpretations of modern folklore, which is kind of what ST has become.

As an aside, I remember the first time I watched TNG. I have to admit it was strange hearing this British actor playing a Frenchman narrating a captain's log. But despite some horrible early eps in the first season, I was willing to give it a chance. And I'm glad I had an open mind about it then, and now.

TOS is still king in my book, but I do enjoy most of the modern ST. I think you've created an interesting and provocative thread, so thanks.

Red Ranger

 

[Neopeius]

RAMA said:

Nope, but pronouncing the new ones as inferior and that everyone should think so is also rather 1 dimensional thinking and insulting. Fair enough.

Did I say you need to think so?

I guess my attitudes about women are more mature than yours, both in regards to physical and sexual power. And happily so.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not repulsed by body hair, for instance.

 

[USS Mariner]

RAMA said:

Some of us have moved on, others are still back in 1987 saying "sacrilege", and a few other hapless people think ST ended in 1979. Sad and pathetic I know, but that's why we have the TOS board...to keep those people from infecting the rest of the normal people.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Mariner Class said:

RAMA said:

Some of us have moved on, others are still back in 1987 saying "sacrilege", and a few other hapless people think ST ended in 1979. Sad and pathetic I know, but that's why we have the TOS board...to keep those people from infecting the rest of the normal people.

RAMA

Yes but I can mingle with the normal people, the others that BELIEVE those things shouldn't. I'm immune to the disease.

RAMA