Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoilers)

[mswood]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

^But that doesn't actually account for how he survived the fall, just for how he faked the body.

Its been a while, how tall was that building? Because people have managed to survive falls from many stories, while some will die falling off of a single story home.

While they did set up Molly, personally I would find it hard to believe. One emergency services were right on the spot bloody quickly, and the were quite quick in not letting people get to the body and to haul said body out of the way.

Molly doesn't have any way of managing that.

Who does?

While Mycroft certainly would have the means, the resources, and the motivations to (if) Sherlock survived, get his body away, get him care, and fake his death. In fact, thats the only character that I can see who would have been local would could handle faking all aspects of the death.

Sure if Sherlock did fall, once well could hide out, and work behind the scenes, just as "the Women" did.

If he dropped, I don't see how he could get medical care and remain safely hidden without someone like his bastard of a brother's help.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Mswood!!--my boss just lightened my load--at last--today (translation--his boss began screaming at him for not being on site enough). I was looking for Supernatural on his computer and that's how I happened upon Sherlock. Not only had I never watched it, I'd never heard of it. I had no interest in Sherlock Holmes prior. I didn't even know that Irene Adler was a canoncial character; I thought she was someone these writers created.

As for Sherlock surviving the fall--he must have jumped into the lorry that was parked there. He must have; it could have been filled with mattresses. Sherlock did ask Moriarty to step away and give him privacy.

It's not a given he'd survive the fall. Molly has another body available. There was a small building between Sherlock and John--Sherlock implores John to stay right where he is. That's key, I think. Sherlock can't afford to have John see him land. Sherlock pays off so many homeless and street artists around the city--the cyclist obviously leveled John on purpose. John falls down, hits his head; he's woozy. The people crowd around the body but John never gets a really good look though he manages to grab the wrist to check for a pulse. I agree that Mycroft must be involved somehow. He's got to be. He certainly owes Sherlock after giving Moriarty all the ammuntion he needed. Sherlock picks the place with Moriarty; he gets John out of the way with the phony call about Mrs. Hudson...but he's hoping he won't have to go through with it, that Moriarty will call off the gunman. Then Moriarty offs himself unexpectedly. Sherlock realizes he has no choice but to go through with it and he's in tears because he realizes he'll never see his friend again, and that he must ruin his own reputation to spare John's public reputation. His sadness on the roof at that moment is more than genuine.

Oh, the character work, mswood. It draws me like a moth to the flame. I did finally check out an episode of Elementary. It wasn't bad. Jonny Lee Miller is a fine English actor but, as I expected, I was underwhelmed by Lucy Liu. The chemistry just isn't there. Holmes and Watson must have chemistry or it's just another procedural. It's more clever than the CSI genre, granted, but it's not the tender genius of Cumberbatch and Freeman. Not by a mile. Those two are lightning in a bottle.

I've started Jekyll. Damn, that shit is scary.

 

[Australis]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

^ Eeeexceeennntt. 'Jekyll' has the best last line.

 

[Takeru]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I did finally check out an episode of Elementary. It wasn't bad. Jonny Lee Miller is a fine English actor but, as I expected, I was underwhelmed by Lucy Liu. The chemistry just isn't there. Holmes and Watson must have chemistry or it's just another procedural.

Which episode did you see because I think Holmed and Watson on Elementary have chemistry. Is it possible that being underwhelmed by Lucy Liu was some kind of self fulfilling prophecy?

I honestly prefer Elementary to Sherlock, both are good shows but I have come to dislike the "Haha, everyone thinks they're gay" jokes. Either make them a couple or stop the constant ship teasing, it's not funny or clever.
Despite people assuming that Elementary would go the will they/won't they route with their female Watson it's actually Sherlock that's doing it. Elementary handles the Holmes/Watson friendship much better, probably because they have more time to develop it.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I watched the premiere. I didn't hate it, but no, I'm not inclined to like Lucy Liu very much. Maybe another actress would have impressed me more or been better with Miller. Maybe it's an individual thing, but Freeman/Cumberbatch just hit it out of the park too far so another Holmes and Watson are going to suffer by comparison IMO. For me, at least. If Freeman/Cumberbatch didn't successfully sell the very deep, platonic bond between the characters I might find the gay innuendo tiresome, but I don't see Holmes/Watson as two men attracted to one another physically, only emotionally due to circumstance and prior emotional pain. It's an emotional bond; it isn't physical longing or UST. That's why it resonates with me. Maybe chicks are just programmed to find that adorable.

Hetero men will do that--make jokes like that to ease their nervousness because men just don't feel they can be demonstrative with one another like female friends can. That's my life experience with the men I've known. Two of my male colleagues share an extremely close friendship because they served together in the armed forces and they joke around like that with one another. Oh my, folks are gonna talk and all that. They don't mean anything hateful by it.

I watched episode two of Jekyll. Poor Tom. What's he going to do? All those hateful men in the organization doing what they did at the zoo to his boy....bastards.

 

[mswood]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I also am not that excited by Liu in the three episodes of Elementary I watched, she's not bad by any means, and its one of her better performances (I really have a like or hate on her various jobs I have scene).

But it was certainly hurt by the fact that for the last two years I have watched, and rewatched, and rewatched Sherlock. And its no where near the quality level. While a basically 6 episode season (each is basically two norma American episodes), but its still there.

I certainly think I would have liked it better if Sherlock hadn't aired or if my exposure to Sherlock was just the recent two films (Yuck).

I watched Jeckly a year or two ago, but I don't remember anything about it, I will have to check it out again.

The other show I really really need to catch up on is Justified. I only watched two episodes, liked both a lot, but never watched again.... Oh well hiatus is a great time for that.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Somebody recommended Justified to me. I'll have to start that after Jekyll. I hear good things.

Yes, I, too, might have been more fond of Elementary if I hadn't seen Sherlock first. Get off my sheet.

You can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk.....

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I watched the premiere. I didn't hate it, but no, I'm not inclined to like Lucy Liu very much. Maybe another actress would have impressed me more or been better with Miller.

I think, and it seems others agree, that the pilot was the weakest episode so far.

Maybe it's an individual thing, but Freeman/Cumberbatch just hit it out of the park too far so another Holmes and Watson are going to suffer by comparison IMO. For me, at least.

I find I don't have the need to compare different versions in that way. Cumberbatch/Freeman, Downey/Law, and Miller/Liu are all distinctly different variations on a common theme, going in different directions, so I guess I don't see them as being in direct competition for the same niche. Okay, the two TV versions are both present-day, but other than that there are a lot of differences in the setting, the characterizations, the approach, etc.

 

[Takeru]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I watched the premiere. I didn't hate it,

Well, even Elementary fans usually agree that the pilot is the weakest episode, it only goes up from there. Maybe you'll give it another chance (if you can stomach Lucy Liu), I think it would be a mistake to miss out on a good show just because another show is even better. With all the crap on tv every good show deserves viewers, especially on network tv. If you didn't hate the pilot you might genuinely like later episodes.

but no, I'm not inclined to like Lucy Liu very much. Maybe another actress would have impressed me more or been better with Miller.

It seems like your Lucy Liu is my Tom Cruise, sometimes I have to be kicked to watch one of his movies and sometimes I really enjoy him. So feel yourself kicked, watch a few more episodes of Elementary.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I don't get why some people don't like Lucy Liu. I've always liked her just fine. But then, I'm probably biased because she has such incredibly beautiful eyes.

 

[Takeru]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I like her too and I'm glad she's back on tv in a regular role.

 

[Avalon]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

As for Sherlock surviving the fall--he must have jumped into the lorry that was parked there. He must have; it could have been filled with mattresses. Sherlock did ask Moriarty to step away and give him privacy.

It's not a given he'd survive the fall. Molly has another body available. There was a small building between Sherlock and John--Sherlock implores John to stay right where he is. That's key, I think. Sherlock can't afford to have John see him land. Sherlock pays off so many homeless and street artists around the city--the cyclist obviously leveled John on purpose. John falls down, hits his head; he's woozy. The people crowd around the body but John never gets a really good look though he manages to grab the wrist to check for a pulse. I agree that Mycroft must be involved somehow. He's got to be. He certainly owes Sherlock after giving Moriarty all the ammuntion he needed. Sherlock picks the place with Moriarty; he gets John out of the way with the phony call about Mrs. Hudson...but he's hoping he won't have to go through with it, that Moriarty will call off the gunman. Then Moriarty offs himself unexpectedly. Sherlock realizes he has no choice but to go through with it and he's in tears because he realizes he'll never see his friend again, and that he must ruin his own reputation to spare John's public reputation. His sadness on the roof at that moment is more than genuine.

I agree with most of this. However, a body substitution at the scene isn't necessary -- the rubber ball he was bouncing in a previous scene goes into his armpit to slow his pulse in that arm (John is meant to get close enough to take his pulse), while he's quickly splashed with "blood" or makeup to look more injured than he really is.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

If you're interested in checking out another British mystery/police drama then give Luther a go. It stars Idris Elba who was in The Wire, and along with Sherlock is one of crime/mystery shows I watch. It can be very dark. So far there have been 2 series with 6 episodes in the first series and 4 in the second. A third series of 4 episodes are due in the new year sometime.

 

[Relayer1]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Speaking of Jekyll, not having seen it I just picked the up whole series on DVD from Amazon UK for a bargain £4 with free postage.

Bargain !

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Has some odd American accents, and the occasional strange choice but overall is very good.

 

[stj]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I tended to associate Lucy Liu with Quentin Tarantino movies, which is not a positive thing. I had negative expectations for Elementary, thinking the female Watson was intended for Unresolved Sexual Tension, a trap they've completely evaded thus far. I had positive expectations for Sherlock because I associated Steven Moffat with Dr. Who, which is too fantasy/nostalgia oriented to be consistently appealing for me, but has many good things in its writing.

But there is one kind of expectation that it seems to me is inescapable in approaching a Holmes adaptation, which is expcting Holmes to be the protagonist. Sherlock's Holmes is a self-avowed sociopath, while Elementary's Holmes is flawed. One makes some people horny while the other's weakness is unattractive. Obviously tastes will differ but not finding the difference to be important is in a sense the same as claiming that taste is completely irrelevant. Our duty apparently is to just buy what the writers write? This is especially true because Sherlock and Elementary really are in very many ways not just alternatives but opposites.

 

[mswood]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

If you're interested in checking out another British mystery/police drama then give Luther a go. It stars Idris Elba who was in The Wire, and along with Sherlock is one of crime/mystery shows I watch. It can be very dark. So far there have been 2 series with 6 episodes in the first series and 4 in the second. A third series of 4 episodes are due in the new year sometime.

The Wire is one of the finest things to ever come out of American tv, and I really enjoyed the first season of Luther, I didn't care for the 2nd that much, though.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I watched one and a half episodes of The Wire and I was wishing I had taken up knitting to get through that much. Yes I seem to be missing something.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

They don't get the wire/the bug/listening device installed in the drug dealers hut until the final episode of season one.

You begin to enjoy how the PoPo can't get anything done because the system is broken.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Luther.....got it. Idris Elba impressed in The Wire. That's an easy choice. Well, I watched the end of Jekyll.

Spoiler: ending

So he's never going to escape no matter what he does? Mommy is going to get him? How grim. Mama Hyde supercedes ghost mommy? I guess Mama Hyde was stil living physically while Jekyll mommy was dead from the car accident. And what was up with the boys "switching"? One evil twin and one good? Tom and Claire sure weren't eager to examine the possibility of their offspring being affected.

Love it that Sherlock is making so many "best of" television lists for 2012 since it aired on PBS's Masterpiece. It deserves it. I'm now leaning towards John punching Sherlock in the face when the latter finally reveals his living status. As in why didn't you at least reveal it to me that you're alive once the shooters backed off if not to the public at large? John's put up with a great deal and emotions are a funny thing. You're afraid your child is lying dead in a ditch if she's out all night and then threaten to kill her when you find out she didn't think to call--that sort of reaction. I wonder how mad he'll be and if it will sustain into episode 2. It might be interesting if it did.