Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoilers)

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Pardon my ignorance since I've been working massive overtime until about 2 days ago--this Elementary--it's a BBC series or an American one?

There are two Sherlock Holmes series set in the present day.

The BBC's Sherlock (from Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss) is set in present day London (though filmed in Cardiff) and stars Benedict Cumberbatch as Holmes and Martin Freeman as Watson.

CBS' Elementary (from Rob Doherty) is set in present day New York (and filmed there) and stars Jonny Lee Miller as Holmes and Lucy Liu as Joan Watson.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Pardon my ignorance since I've been working massive overtime until about 2 days ago--this Elementary--it's a BBC series or an American one?

An American series, created and show-run by Robert Doherty.

Lucy Liu as Watson? Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Turning Watson into a woman is bad enough, but to turn him into the charm free Lucy Liu?

Actually it's working out very well. The show is a big hit, and its leads have good chemistry. And turning Watson into a woman is surely no worse than turning Watson into a doddering buffoon the way the Rathbone-Bruce movies did.

I don't know if you didn't have to explain where Michelle is from because she is the most beautiful woman in the world, or because reminding us that she was the Bionic Woman makes us doubt her inner beauty which disqualifies her from being the most beautiful woman in the world.

Neither of the above. She has a wide-ranging career in film, television, and theatre, from which I assumed her name would be recognizable, and that very short-lived Bionic Woman remake from five years ago is merely a minor blip in her career, hardly worth mentioning. I'd think that even American viewers would remember her more as Nimueh in Merlin or Lady Christina in Doctor Who: "Planet of the Dead."

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Oh bother, my netflix is glitching out this evening. I'm sure it will right itself soon enough. Pardon my ignorance since I've been working massive overtime until about 2 days ago--this Elementary--it's a BBC series or an American one? Lucy Liu as Watson? Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Turning Watson into a woman is bad enough, but to turn him into the charm free Lucy Liu? Blech.

CBS.

Set in New York.

Johnny Lee Miller from Trainspotting, a villain two season's ago in Dexter and fantastically Eli Stone if you like a law firm that has constant song and dance numbers... **Swoon**

Johnny is using his real accent, well, close to his real accent, he's got this aspergers thing going on, so he's an Englishman in America, recovering from Heroin addiction with the aid of his "Sober Companion" (babysitter) JOAN Watson paid for by his father, who is never seen and possibly made up by Sherlock to manipulate Watson, but constantly threatening to cut him off if he doesn't behave.

Holme's is a consultant for the NYPD.

The pilot wasn't that great, but the subsequent episodes have been very engaging and even bordering on clever... But it's still not an adequate replacement for the genuine article.

Gotta appreciate the quantity however.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Ahhhh, I didn't even know this series existed. That's how little I watch network television anymore. I think I'll stick with the BBC version. Jonny Lee Miller is great, but the Watson as woman thing just doesn't work for me. Certainly not with Lucy Liu in the part. I'm thinking of trying Merlin or some other BBC offering. Maybe Justified from FX. I hear good things. I'll need a fix to hold me until Sherlock comes back. Sob.

That naked scene with Irene was great. First time Sherlock ever got flustered but he recovered. Loved how he acted just the teensiest bit jealous when Irene cast a glance John's way on the sofa and talked about smart being the new sexy....if I wanted to look at naked women I'd have taken John's laptop. Meow, meow, Sherlock. That voice of his is to die for.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

You've convinced me to stick my Sherlock disks into my player and watch season 2 again.



You're a trend setter Dorian.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I try my best.

What will John do when he's finally reunited with Sherlock...give him a hug or punch him in the face? Sob, it can't be a whole year until I find out.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Some of us have already been waiting a year.

Stop rubbing it in,

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

...but the Watson as woman thing just doesn't work for me.

Where are you posting from, the 1960s? Why the hell would that matter?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

For crying out loud, it's a subjective opinion in a television thread. I'm a woman. I love female characters. I detest Lucy Liu and feel that the dynamic of the loving platonic friendship of Holmes and Watson would be undermined if one of the characters were changed to a woman. There's always the temptation of some writer to add sexual tension and so few of them do it well.

And did I mention I detest the work of Lucy Liu? There are better actresses. I'm a card carrying tree hugging liberal. It's just an opinion. Don't make me into a female misogynist because I think Watson should remain a man.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Sherlock is full of sexual tension and there's no woman in sight.

And yes, it's a matter of taste

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Thank you. It's copacetic if someone thinks Watson being a woman is a good idea, but it's not my cup of tea and I have no interest in watching. To each his or her own. Hopefully Elementary is their cup of tea.

Interestingly enough, I loved the addition of Irene and the wrinkle she threw into things. She could clear Sherlock's name. She knows Moriarty exists--of course she's sort of a wanted criminal who's supposed to be dead, so I guess that's not a viable option.

I find Sherlock and John sweet. The onscreen friendships resonate the most for me. True, I did notice a few slashy references to them online.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

This isn't the first time..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067848/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

What's your opinion on Joanne Woodward?



I'm seeing an excess of defenestration in A Scandal in Belgrade.

Irene Jumped out a window escaping her flat, and Sherlock threw the CIA guy out his window several times, while he was seeing what could muffle a human splat, which apparently are not Mrs Hudson's bins well.

Almost like Sherlock is planning something for down the line.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Joanne Woodward is awesome times ten. I love, love, love her work. The first time I ever saw her was in the television movie Sybill as the psychiatrist to Sally Field's titular character. The scenario described for the linked movie is intriguing, being that it was in the context of a self contained movie. The set up sounds great with the man being in the psychiatric hospital. I have to check that out. Thanks.

When it comes to turning male characters to female, I think what puts me off of it was what happened to the Starbuck character in the nuBattlestar. Initially the character was great and I had no problems with Starbuck becoming female, but what did the writers do? They had the character become the object of a prolonged, badly written love triangle/quadrangle between Apollo, Anders, and Dee that dragged on for two bloody seasons. They couldn't keep the original Apollo/Starbuck friendship intact.

But--that's only my opinion. I just felt that necessary character development for all four characters was neglected. Maybe Elementary does it better, but I prefer the Freeman/Cumberbatch dynamic. To each her own.

I never thought about Sherlock throwing the thug out of the window as being a test for down the line. Kudos to the writers if they were that forward thinking.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I...feel that the dynamic of the loving platonic friendship of Holmes and Watson would be undermined if one of the characters were changed to a woman. There's always the temptation of some writer to add sexual tension and so few of them do it well.

There are plenty of shows on TV today featuring male and female characters with no sexual tension at all -- characters who are pure coworkers (e.g. Mac and Jo on CSI:NY or Reese and Carter on Person of Interest), or whose relationship is more like surrogate brother and sister (e.g. Pete and Myka on Warehouse 13) or surrogate father and daughter (e.g. The Middleman and Wendy on The Middleman). So in this day and age it simply makes no sense to assume that any male-female relationship in television is obligated to be romantic.

Besides, as Holmes himself said, it is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. The facts are these: Currently there are three active incarnations of Sherlock Holmes in the mass media: the Robert Downey/Jude Law films, Sherlock, and Elementary. Elementary is the only version in which Holmes and Watson are not both male. And Elementary is also the only version which, to date, has not featured sexual tension between Holmes and Watson. The other two versions wallow in gay innuendo; Elementary has so far kept things absolutely platonic between the leads.

Don't make me into a female misogynist because I think Watson should remain a man.

Okay, tell me this: How would you feel if they were both women? If your problem is with their sex relative to each other, why cast your complaint solely in terms of what Watson's sex is?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

The adventures of Shirley Holmes

We have a female Holmes and no Watson, but her assistant is already her boyfriend.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Gay innuendo isn't sexual tension. Not in my opinion. It's just a bit of humor because in the 21st century people make assumptions about two bachelors of a certain age sharing a flat. Cumberbatch said it himself about how people would assume that about Holmes and Watson. They do love one another, but it's not sexual love. It's friendship. Some think it's slashy. I don't.

I didn't "theorize ahead of the facts." I expressed a subjective opinion about one particular fictional character on a fictional show. I enjoy Watson as a male character. Martin Freeman's performance is outstanding and I don't have to apologize for liking it. If you enjoy Elementary, that's great. Neither opinion is right or wrong. I didn't ask "what the hell is wrong with you?" for liking a show.

If TPTB switched one character, yes I'd rather they switch both, like when there was a revival of the Odd Couple on stage. Felix and Oscar were female this time. My parents saw it and thought it was great. Thank you for being a total buzz kill and implying there's something wrong with me for prefering an actor in a particular role. No, not all male/female interactions on screen have tension, but when only one iconic character in an iconic pairing is changed to the different gender, generally writers will fall prey to that temptation.

Guy, I'd never heard of that Shirley Holmes show. I think the Joanne Woodward vehicle sounds more promising.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Shirley Holmes tricked me.

I knew this show existed, but I didn't know much anything about it.

Remedying that 10 minutes ago, I looked up the main character, and I was agog.

The female lead is frighteningly attractive.

I completely forgot that Michelle Ryan existed briefly.

Without pause for breath, I instantly began downloading the Canadian comedy drama.

Canadian Comedy dramas are excellent.

"Sigh"

And then I noticed something odd.

"Merideth Henderson began her titular role at the age of 12"

Oh.

It's a children's show!

I-fricking-Carly for a by gone generation probably barely a leg up from Blues Clues.

But yes, They Might be Giants is superb even if it does get a little lost near the end.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I found They Might Be Giants at amazon.com. I've placed an order; I'm looking foward to it. I'd never heard of it because I never really paid much attention to anything Sherlock Holmes related. I've never even seen a Basil Rathbone movie.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I've never heard of They Might Be Giants either. Sounds a lot like Elementary.

And I remember Shirley Holmes. I liked the intro…

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMiv5cNkzNM[/yt]

Looks like you can watch entire episodes on YouTube.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Elementary, like Sherlock, is an updated story.

They Might be Giants has a crazy George C Scott who thinks that he is a historical literary figure, escape a sanatorium with his psychiatrist Doctor Mildred Watson hot on his heels cataloguing his mania.

Off to the side of all this in the lore of Doctor Who... There's a Bernice Summerfield Audio Adventure where she's lost in time for a while and teams up with Mycroft Holmes to save the day against an Alien menace.



Oh my.

The drug that lets you see the massive glowing hound!

It creates a suggestive state where you see what you're told to see, like Sherlock jumping off a building.

Did Sherlock drug John again to fake his suicidal jump?