Sound like most wars and natural disasters.
Any Trek authors pitched a post Romulus story to Pocketbooks yet?
- Thread starter ConRefit79
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Sound like most wars and natural disasters.
Yes, and in Trek it lately becomes pretty redundant. Just like the typical "good guys against bad guy with doomsday device" standard plot in the last 6 Trek movies (yes, including the new "refreshing" one).
Reresh my memory what was the doomsday device in Insurrection? The "doomsday device" has been part of the Trek movie formula since TMP and of course the mad villain w/DDD dates back to Khan. Even TVH has the planet destroying Whale Probe. TFF is the only other one that comes to mind where a WMD doesn't figure into the plot.
I) V'GER
II) Genesis
III) Genesis again
IV) Whale Probe
V) ?
VI) Weapons firing cloaked ship.
VII) Star Destroying missile
VIII) Borg
IX) ?
X) Superduper Romulan ship w/thalaron weapon
XI) Red matter
"Alright, people behind the movie, let me lay down the law. This is an action and sci-fi movie, so we've got a number of requirements to meet. There must be a bad guy with a doomsday device; someone should dangle from the edge of a cliff once, preferably twice; don't neglect people with funny ethnic accents for comic relief; and at some point there should be polar bears, and a giant spider."
"Can we make them alien polar bears and giant spider?"
"Sure; this is your film--we're not here to interfere."
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
The spaceborne collector deployed at the climax of the film, which was designed to collect the "metaphasic radiation" using a "thermolytic reaction" that would render the entire planet uninhabitable.
Well, if you're counting destructive entities like V'Ger and the Borg, then it makes sense to count the Sha Ka Ree "God" entity as well. It surely would've unleashed a fair amount of chaos on the galaxy if it had gotten hold of a starship.
If you stretch the definition of a "doomsday device" to accommodate anything dangerous. Frankly I don't think a ship that can fire weapons while cloaked is a legitimate entry in that category; it's not even remotely near the potential level of destruction of something that can wipe out a planet or a sun. It's just an ordinary ship that's a little sneakier than usual. So I call shenanigans on placing TUC on the list. At least for that reason. There was a planetary-level threat in TUC, but it was the explosion of Praxis.
V'Ger, Kruge, the Whale Probe, the Sha Ka Ree entity don't fit into the same category as Soran and his sun destroying missile, the Borg Queen and her attempt at destroying the Phoenix, Ru'afo and his Collector, Shinzon and his Thalaron weapon and Nero and his black hole device.
The last 5 movies ALWAYS had a story resolved in a fight scene, with a villain trying to ignite some sort of uberpowerful weapon (I count the Queen's attempt at destroying the Phoenix with Quantum torpedoes to destroy the timeline to that), basically a rehashed climax of Wrath of Khan with different actors. The enemy's ship and weapon become more and more powerful, the (expected) death toll becomes larger and larger, but it's the same painted by numbers thing over and over again.
TMP, TWOK, TSFS, TVH, TFF, TUC was such a good mix of different stories.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
That's why my blood runs cold when the writers of a Trek movie bring up TWOK. It's been done. Try something new. TWOK worked on it's own but it had the backstory of Space Seed as well. Shinzon & Nero don't have that history with the characters yet we're supposed to see their personal vendettas have just as much depth. A clone we've never heard anything about and a Romulan miner who's motivation we're told about and see very briefly in flashback hardly measure up.
You know, I'd say Nero had far better motivation for his vendetta and actions than Khan did (and I like TWoK).
Nero's entire world is obliterated, killing his pregnant wife and it's all because Spock failed to stop the supernova before it reached Romulus (something Spock admits to). Nero wants Spock to feel the way he does now.
Khan's wimpy wife dies and it's somehow Kirk's fault? Did he blow up Ceti Alpha 6? No.
Even Nero's need for Red Matter fits with the story far better than Khan's need for Genesis.
Be thankful they did not have ST9: The Wrath of Bok.
Vulcan maybe. But why the entire Federation? His own government was more at fault than Spock. They denied there was a problem. They could have evacuated as many people as possible to a colony world
^Since when was revenge logical? Nero was stranded in the past for 25 years, with no possible way to do anything about the tragedy he'd suffered. Perhaps initially he only wanted revenge on Spock, but probably the only way he survived 25 years in Rura Penthe was by clinging to his vengeance as his reason for living. It would've become an all-consuming obsession. So it's not something he could turn off after destroying one planet. After all, what would he have to live for then? After a quarter-century steeped in vengeance and hate, he couldn't imagine any other path. He's just keep going after Federation worlds until either the Federation fell or he did.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Nero suffered from being the villian in an origin picture. Once you finish bringing the crew together, there's not a lot of space left for charactization. Tim Burton's Batman had the origin in it but it was a small part of the story. Batman Begins was much more about how Bruce became Batman so the villains had less to work with. The dark Knight had the origin out of the way so the story was more about the Joker and Two Face.
Nero was about as effective a villain as Shinzon was. He was evil because the plot required someone evil. His reasons for being so are window dressing.
Nero was about as effective a villain as Shinzon was. He was evil because the plot required someone evil. His reasons for being so are window dressing.
I'm a huge fan of the movie (it's pretty much my favorite Trek movie), but even I'm willing to admit Nero wasn't as great of a villain as they tried to make him out to be in the pre-release stuff. He was pretty much just an excuse to get the crew together, but since I liked the rest of the movie I'm willing to over look that.
Khan is the gold standard for Trek villains. So it's not surprising they want that type of villain in these movies. Faceless villains/threats dont seem to resonate with the audience. I think they want it to be personal and not just saving the universe from some "thing".
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
The problem was that Nero has a major beef with Spock. How much do we see them together? We're told about the destruction of Romulus and see it and Spock's failure in the mind meld but there's no feeling of connection between Spcok and Nero. The spotlight, deservedly so, is on the new crew and getting them together. If the movie had started with Spock and Nero still in the prime universe and we'd seen them together then it Nero's motivations would resonate more. As it is, Spock shows up partway through the movie, fills Kirk (and us) in on the back story, and then he disappears until the end.
Ironically, despite my general feelings on the film (objectively, it was a perfectly decent movie, but I personally didn't like it)- and especially my feelings about the destruction of Romulus - I liked Nero. He just worked for me. No motive beyond simple trauma-induced hatred. A villain who's basically just an angry, hateful working-class guy who happens to have a big weapon and, by Elements, is going to destroy things. A miner, a working man with no political agenda, no grand speeches, a pretty normal man who's just snapped. That's why the lack of characterization didn't bother me. Nero...he's just this guy, you know? 
He's certainly a pretty non-distinctive character, but that's a good thing, I think. I just personally wish they hadn't destroyed Romulus to make him.
He's certainly a pretty non-distinctive character, but that's a good thing, I think. I just personally wish they hadn't destroyed Romulus to make him.Similar threads
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