Which is the better fifth Buffyverse season?
Angel Season 5 vs. Buffy Season 5
- Thread starter Joe Washington
- Start date
J
Jetfire
Guest
BtVS S5...I will say Angel S5 is great...I really couldn't get into the previous seasons of Angel. 
"Angel" season 5 by simple math. Season 5 of Angel has only five bad episodes - "A Hole in the World", "Shells", "Origin", and "Time Bomb". On the other hand, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" season 5 has only five good episodes. "Buffy vs. Dracula", "The Replacement" (my second favourite of the whole series), "Into the Woods", "I Was Made to Love You", and "The Body".
Season 5 of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" kills the hot streak the series had been on from season 2 to season 4. Season 5 of "Angel" is the most consistent season of its respective series overall, faltering only briefly with the Illyria arc being a bit meandering until the writers figure out the right direction to take the character.
One of the big reasons the aforementioned "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" episodes are good is because Glory is mostly kept out of the way in them. Any time she takes center stage, the show is stopped dead in its tracks, and it straight up 'jumps the shark' for the last six episodes. Losing Riley, giving attention to Glory, and having Spike develop a crush on Buffy destroyed this show.
Season 5 of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" kills the hot streak the series had been on from season 2 to season 4. Season 5 of "Angel" is the most consistent season of its respective series overall, faltering only briefly with the Illyria arc being a bit meandering until the writers figure out the right direction to take the character.
One of the big reasons the aforementioned "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" episodes are good is because Glory is mostly kept out of the way in them. Any time she takes center stage, the show is stopped dead in its tracks, and it straight up 'jumps the shark' for the last six episodes. Losing Riley, giving attention to Glory, and having Spike develop a crush on Buffy destroyed this show.
This may be a first but I might actually disagree with you here. I used to think very highly of Season 5 of Buffy but having re-watched it several times now, I find that I have a lot more problems with the season than I remembered having the first time through. I think episodes like The Body and The Gift really helped make it seem like an incredible season because they were such incredible episodes, but there are so many problems with the rest of the season that it's gone down a few notches in my book, even a bit below Season 5 of Angel.
Yeah, there were definitely awesome individual episodes of Buffy Season 5 to be sure, especially the two you mentioned. However, I have also rewatched it several times, and I actually find that I enjoy it more each time for a lot of little reasons.
Angel Season 5 definitely has fantastic episodes and a decent arc towards the end, but there is so much wasted time in a lot of the standalone episodes that I find it hard to give the entire season a high rating.
That said, it's also difficult to compare because Angel's 5th season was also its last, while Buffy still had two more seasons left to tell more story.
You have got to be kidding me.
Two of these developments are among the best things that have ever happened to BtVS
And Glory was a good villain, not the best, but a good one.Season 5 of Buffy is awesome, a serious contender for the title of the best Buffy season. I can't really think of any bad episodes in BtVS S5.
And season 6 is even better
I like the third thing, too, I just don't want to exaggerate. I liked Glory (or rather, liked to hate her) but the Mayor is still the best Buffy villain ever.
I'll never understand why people like Glory. I think she was the worst villain of all and brought that whole season down. She was just SO annoying. She wasn't intimidatingly elegant like The Master, menacing and cool like Spike and Angelus, original and twisted like The Mayor (I love that dichotomy of him being the most 'square', finicky, and old-fashioned kind of guy who is also sadistic), or entertainingly funny like the Trio.
Adam and The First were boring, but at least they weren't gratingly obnoxious to the point where every word out of their mouth just irritated the hell out of me. Glory's dialog was lame and her powers were nothing special. Buffy said it best when she declared she's sick of super powered chicks that aren't her. Glory's just a borderline invincible super being who is full of herself. Like we haven't seen that kind of character before, and she's not even arrogant in a funny way like Illyria.
Yawn. At least the other characters had quirks and different facets that made them interesting.
I didn't love to hate Glory, I just wanted her to get the hell off my screen and stop ruining one of my favourite shows. I'm not going to argue anymore about the Spike and Buffy romantic pairing because that's a matter of taste that I've debated enough about in the past, but it boggles my mind how anyone could find the character of Glory appealing and/or beneficial to the series in any way, shape, or form. Also, the whole thing with Ben and Glory sharing the same body was so stupid. That bit where Ben rematerializes in her dress is one of the corniest, most unfunny jokes the series has ever done.
Adam and The First were boring, but at least they weren't gratingly obnoxious to the point where every word out of their mouth just irritated the hell out of me. Glory's dialog was lame and her powers were nothing special. Buffy said it best when she declared she's sick of super powered chicks that aren't her. Glory's just a borderline invincible super being who is full of herself. Like we haven't seen that kind of character before, and she's not even arrogant in a funny way like Illyria.
Yawn. At least the other characters had quirks and different facets that made them interesting. I didn't love to hate Glory, I just wanted her to get the hell off my screen and stop ruining one of my favourite shows. I'm not going to argue anymore about the Spike and Buffy romantic pairing because that's a matter of taste that I've debated enough about in the past, but it boggles my mind how anyone could find the character of Glory appealing and/or beneficial to the series in any way, shape, or form. Also, the whole thing with Ben and Glory sharing the same body was so stupid. That bit where Ben rematerializes in her dress is one of the corniest, most unfunny jokes the series has ever done.
Season 5 of Angel was a lot for some fans to cope with, a lot of pretty fundamental changes. Season 5 Buffy had some of the strongest eps in the series, 'The Body', The Gift etc, whilst s5 Angel had 'Smile Time' and 'You're Welcome'. I think for me Buffy had the slight edge, we wouldn't prize Angel s5 so much had it not been the last season
J
Jetfire
Guest
I thought Glory was awesome. Clare Kramer was excellent as Glory...my favorite BtVS villain next to Spike.
I enjoyed all those Angel episodes. Particularly 'A Hole In The World', which may make my top five Angel eps ever. Buffy season 5 was a marvellous season IMO. Probably second only to that show's third season. The pace didn't let up. It was like watching a movie every week. Any season with 'Fool for Love', 'The Body', 'The Gift', etc is great in my book.
Angel season five was a great one, too. It might actually be my favourite season of Angel. I'm having a tough time deciding... um, I'll give the edge to Buffy season 5 because it had a stronger arc. Angel season 5, whilst great, was only hurt for me by the WB's insistence on doing away with arc stories (at least for the first quarter or so of the season). And by the time an arc kicks in, the show's nearly over.
Angel's 5th season has a couple of the series' strongest episodes (particularly "You're Welcome" and "A Hole in the World"). However, I found the season to be horribly inconsistent for the first half and the overall arc of the season was diluted with several unnecessary (and sub-par) stand-alone episodes early on. The season would have been greatly improved if they'd scrapped the unnecessary episodes like "Life of the Party", "The Cautionary Tale..." and "Why We Fight."
Buffy's 5th season had a stronger, more cohesive arc, IMO. There may not have been as many stand-out episodes (aside from, say, "The Body" and "The Gift") but I really liked the overall themes and direction of the season.
Buffy's 5th season had a stronger, more cohesive arc, IMO. There may not have been as many stand-out episodes (aside from, say, "The Body" and "The Gift") but I really liked the overall themes and direction of the season.
Angel's fifth season had numerous strong episodes, but it lacked a strong narrative arc most of the way through, which weakens it (the most obvious case: the penultimate episode opens with everybody finding Angel distant and convinced that he's gone evil, and the audience is meant to be in suspense, when the previous episode was devoted to Angel making a clown of himself in Italy).
Also, Angel season 5 had the most horrible, stupid, unfunny, ill-timed, OOC, character-assassinating, WORST Buffyverse episode ever - "The Girl In Question".
It also had crap episodes like "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco" and "Just Rewards".Oddly enough, two of the episodes you mention are actually among the best of the season - "Shells" and "Origin".
"Hole in the World", however, is indeed incredibly cheesy, and I hate the way they killed off the last remaining regular female character on the show. Especially with the lame way that both Cordelia and Fred died - instead of dying heroically like Doyle or Wesley, they got possessed by another entity and were helpless in what was going on with them (in Cordelia's case, she was actually raped, i.e. made to have sex and get pregnant and bear Jasmine against her will, and then left in a coma to die). And then Fred's death mostly served the male characters. It fell into the trope known as Women in Refrigerators. The "my boys" scene made me roll my eyes.
And even before she died, I got more and more annoyed with Fred being portrayed as this perfect woman that men (Gunn and Wesley in S4, later Wesley and Knox in S5) fight over as a trophy, while she was standing there wishy-washy and confused (though at least she shouted "Hey, I'm standing right here!" while they were being jerks and fighting over her and when Gunn was referring to her as his property that Wes was trying to take away). Then I realized that women on AtS are constantly stuck in the role of mattering primarily as a bone of contention between men, you get the same kind of crap with Angel and Connor in S4 over fake Cordelia (and how bad is it that Angel couldn't even tell her apart from the real Cordelia?). And then of course in S5 they do it most literally with Angel and Spike and the writers treating the absent Buffy as some sort of trophy (together with the hero/champion status and Shanshu), while she doesn't really seem to figure as a real person, at all (Spike isn't making any effort to be with her or even notify her of his existence, Angel is always reverting to some adolescent fantasy of her and doesn't actually want to be with her as much he's upset with the idea of her 'replacing' him with someone else, and the writers use her in a completely ridiculous way in TGIQ).
Season 5 of Angel also had a completely sudden and random Wesley/Fred romance that was totally unconvincing. She knew about his feelings for her for a long time and she wasn't interested, and then suddenly she just got interested for no apparent reason. It's not like he changed, or she changed in any way, or their circumstances changed, or she got to see something in him that she hadn't before... nothing, there was no buildup to it. The whole point was just to get them together and then kill her right afterwards.
The season had an interesting arc for Angel, Gunn and Wesley, but Spike was wasted for the entire second part of the season, his character stopped having any purpose, except to hang around as Angel's buddy/sidekick, which was annoying, especially since there was no real reason for him to stick around. Yes, they had to make him a regular character because of the network. It would have been much better if he had left the show after "Damage". But even so, his characterization was really shallow a lot of the times, it's like they missed the last few seasons of Buffy and just read cliff notes and went back to portraying him as season 4 Spike but with less edge, intelligence and wit, basically like a wacky neighbor kind of character.
Still, it is my 3rd favorite AtS season - because it brought back some fun after the incredibly tedious season 4, which I hated despite the few good episodes here and there. Season 2 is the best by far (if only it had ended before the Pylea episodes, it would've been perfect), then season 3 because of the Connor/Holtz/Wesley storyline; and these are really the only seasons of AtS I consider really strong.
Ranking seasons of AtS:
2
3
5
1
4
Angel Season Five... first half was a little slow but the second half was incredible. Love the new premise.
Buffy Season Five... I liked Glory. I didn't like Joyce dying. I thought it would have made a fitting ending to the series.
I give the edge of Angel, as I always do.
Buffy Season Five... I liked Glory. I didn't like Joyce dying. I thought it would have made a fitting ending to the series.
I give the edge of Angel, as I always do.
Similar threads
