An Observation About diversity on Discovery, 32nd Century

[nic3636]

People with trauma and PTSD aren’t a minority group that have to deal with an extremely high rate of violent attacks and murder.

It should also be noted that showing in this case trans people dealing with violence and discrimination is generally the only story that gets told about them, seeing a trans person living a fulfilling life is a rarity. It’s sends the message that only life a trans person gets is one where they face violence and discrimination. Why must the conflict a LGBTQ person deals with on a show have to be their status as a LGBTQ person? So far Discovery has done an excellent job of avoid it. The conflicts that Stamets and Culber face are based on what they do and their relationship with each other. Adira and Grey face conflict by the fact that Grey is some sort of memory ghost thing. None of it has to do with them being a gay couple or two trans teenagers, nor should it be. Trek exploring those stories is a step backwards and terrible representation. Having them being themselves and nothing about their identity questioned at all is better representation than a million stories about someone facing discrimination. While that may have helped you learn empathy, it actively harms LGBTQ people.

My broader point was that I've liked how Trek has historically tackled serious issues are relevant in the real world. I used stories about bigotry in general as an example of this broader point. Now we are talking about something even more specific, violence against LGBTQ, with the implication that I want to see this on Discovery, which is pretty far away from what I was originally trying to say (and not something I was even thinking about until you brought it up). I'm perfectly happy with a story about Odo and the things he has to deal with being a shapeshifter in a world full of solids. The stories can relate to real world issues without being specifically about them (e.g. I don't need a specific story about black racism). It's also not like there's certain type of issues I want to see more than others, anything that has substance to it is fine by me. So for example, I liked Detmer's PTSD arc.

Your point about people not wanting to see their personal trauma on screen is a valid one, my response point was that other groups (e.g. people with PTSD) may not want their trauma on screen either, but I'm not really interested in advancing this as I assume it would involve rating various traumas on the 1 to 10 scale and then figuring out the threshold of what is acceptable to portray on screen vs. not. You are welcome to do so, but I have nothing to add as I have no objective basis to compare the pain of a mental disorder with the pain of discrimination.

 

[Awesome Possum]

My broader point was that I've liked how Trek has historically tackled serious issues are relevant in the real world. I used stories about bigotry in general as an example of this broader point. Now we are talking about something even more specific, violence against LGBTQ, with the implication that I want to see this on Discovery, which is pretty far away from what I was originally trying to say (and not something I was even thinking about until you brought it up). I'm perfectly happy with a story about Odo and the things he has to deal with being a shapeshifter in a world full of solids. The stories can relate to real world issues without being specifically about them (e.g. I don't need a specific story about black racism). It's also not like there's certain type of issues I want to see more than others, anything that has substance to it is fine by me. So for example, I liked Detmer's PTSD arc.

Your point about people not wanting to see their personal trauma on screen is a valid one, my response point was that other groups (e.g. people with PTSD) may not want their trauma on screen either, but I'm not really interested in advancing this as I assume it would involve rating various traumas on the 1 to 10 scale and then figuring out the threshold of what is acceptable to portray on screen vs. not. You are welcome to do so, but I have nothing to add as I have no objective basis to compare the pain of a mental disorder with the pain of discrimination.

With PTSD the trauma is generally associated with the event that caused it, not seeing someone else go through PTSD. These are generally pretty specific things and certain ones have no business being shown anymore, like suicide which tends to actually trigger suicides when shown.

 

[Dryson]

We don't see many non-humans in the new Starfleet HQ, could it be possible that all species found their way back to their home planets after the Burn? Or is there something more insidious taking place? Look at how non-humans species have been treated after attacks in the past, such as the Xindi attacking Earth. For many years afterwards, non-humans were treated like they were all lepers.

Does anyone know how long after the Xindi attack on Earth that non-humans were accepted again as being equals?

 

[StarMan]

We don't see many non-humans in the new Starfleet HQ, could it be possible that all species found their way back to their home planets after the Burn? Or is there something more insidious taking place?

Nothing insidious.

The most elegant in-universe explanation as to why we see so many humans in an organisation comprised of hundreds of aliens is - we just like to fuck a lot. Probably why Vulcans have looked down their noses at us for centuries, viewing us as a race of promiscuous horn bags that can't keep their hands off one another.

Why do we see so many humans? There's so damn many of them.

I'm sure some humans returned to Earth post-Burn, but I doubt the majority of 32nd century humans would view it as home anymore than most of us would view Africa as home.

 

[Dryson]

Nothing insidious.

The most elegant in-universe explanation as to why we see so many humans in an organisation comprised of hundreds of aliens is - we just like to fuck a lot. Probably why Vulcans have looked down their noses at us for centuries, viewing us as a race of promiscuous horn bags that can't keep their hands off one another.

Why do we see so many humans? There's so damn many of them.

I'm sure some humans returned to Earth post-Burn, but I doubt the majority of 32nd century humans would view it as home anymore than most of us would view Africa as home.

There is no elegance in the 32nd century. Everything that has dilithium as part of its components has been laid to waste. There would not be any large scale re-population taking place in the last 125 years either as the resources of the planets that had people on them would need to be strictly controlled after the Burn, otherwise those planets would be like Earth is today.

So are you saying that Africa would be an alien continent in the 32nd century?

 

[Nyotarules]

In Trek in universe lots of planets had human looking aliens - the Magna Roman planet, the Nazi planet Ekossians, Zeons, Beta III, Angel one, maybe they all joined the UFP and so look human but are not.

 

[Nerys Myk]

We don't see many non-humans in the new Starfleet HQ, could it be possible that all species found their way back to their home planets after the Burn? Or is there something more insidious taking place? Look at how non-humans species have been treated after attacks in the past, such as the Xindi attacking Earth. For many years afterwards, non-humans were treated like they were all lepers.

Does anyone know how long after the Xindi attack on Earth that non-humans were accepted again as being equals?

A week?

 

[Dryson]

A week?

I think that Earth accepting non-humans took longer than a week after the Xindi attack that killed seven million humans. I think the 32nd century is much the same way. Look at how Burnham handled the Vulcans and Romulans during the incident at Ni’Var. Not very diplomatic, but almost condescending because they were non-humans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think that Earth accepting non-humans took longer than a week after the Xindi attack that killed seven million humans.

Everything was Jake by the end of season four.

 

[cooleddie74]

In Trek in universe lots of planets had human looking aliens - the Magna Roman planet, the Nazi planet Ekossians, Zeons, Beta III, Angel one, maybe they all joined the UFP and so look human but are not.

In Trek Beta Canon weren't the Centaurans of the Alpha Centauri sector - the actual humanlike natives of that region that at one point were conjectured to include Zefram Cochrane - almost completely indistinguishable from Earth humans? I seem to remember them being a founding member of the Federation in Beta Canon and the most like Earth in appearance.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In Trek Beta Canon weren't the Centaurans of the Alpha Centauri sector - the actual humanlike natives of that region that at one point were conjectured to include Zefram Cochrane - almost completely indistinguishable from Earth humans? I seem to remember them being a founding member of the Federation in Beta Canon and the most like Earth in appearance.

Yeah, something like that. I think one story had them as transplanted Greeks or something.
Watching TNG right now. The aliens in the episode look like humans with a birthmark on their heads. They did that a lot.

 

[StarMan]

There is no elegance in the 32nd century. Everything that has dilithium as part of its components has been laid to waste. There would not be any large scale re-population taking place in the last 125 years either as the resources of the planets that had people on them would need to be strictly controlled after the Burn, otherwise those planets would be like Earth is today.

So are you saying that Africa would be an alien continent in the 32nd century?

Humans originated on the African continent. I'm saying 32nd century humans may view Earth in a similar vein (as opposed to identifying with it as home).

 

[nic3636]

Yeah, something like that. I think one story had them as transplanted Greeks or something.
Watching TNG right now. The aliens in the episode look like humans with a birthmark on their heads. They did that a lot.

Yeah, besides the obvious budgetary reasons they did that I believe there was also an in-universe explanation. In one of the episodes in TNG there was an ancient alien race that seeded most of the galaxy with a similar genetic code. I might be mis-remembering but I think that was an implied explanation why there are so many aliens that look like humans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, besides the obvious budgetary reasons they did that I believe there was also an in-universe explanation. In one of the episodes in TNG there was an ancient alien race that seeded most of the galaxy with a similar genetic code. I might be mis-remembering but I think that was an implied explanation why there are so many aliens that look like humans.

Not just the ones that looked exactly like humans, but the ones with bumpy foreheads, spots and odd shaped ears, noses and what have you.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

A good place to start would be with the casting people in Vancouver.

A good thing to focus on would be if the production can find enough registered actors of color to play said background roles in episodes before just saying (or implying) that they didn't try hard enough to find any.

 

[Dryson]

Yeah, besides the obvious budgetary reasons they did that I believe there was also an in-universe explanation. In one of the episodes in TNG there was an ancient alien race that seeded most of the galaxy with a similar genetic code. I might be mis-remembering but I think that was an implied explanation why there are so many aliens that look like humans.

Would that mean that there are alien races for each human skin color and non-human, alike, seeding the galaxy with genetic material or did the ancient aliens seed the galaxy with genetic material that built life from the best DNA material that could be found on each planet?

 

[nic3636]

Would that mean that there are alien races for each human skin color and non-human, alike, seeding the galaxy with genetic material or did the ancient aliens seed the galaxy with genetic material that built life from the best DNA material that could be found on each planet?

It's been a while since I saw that episode but I don't think it went into that much detail.

 

[Mudd]

A good thing to focus on would be if the production can find enough registered actors of color to play said background roles in episodes before just saying (or implying) that they didn't try hard enough to find any.

That's never anything but an excuse, for laziness at the very least. It's entirely a matter of how much importance they place on it.

 

[DEWLine]

And this is part of why Bryan Fuller wanted and got CBS and Netflix and whoever else to agree to filming in Toronto: because the talent base is there. In all the human colours.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

That's never anything but an excuse, for laziness at the very least. It's entirely a matter of how much importance they place on it.

No, it is a factor, as much as and like what happened when that episode of Deep Space Nine focusing on Bashir's Augment status had the production staff scrambling to find an actress of the right ethnicity to play his mom (they had to settle for a woman who was a visiting college professor-and not an actress-to play the role just for this episode.) Having non-actors be in a show or movie is a thing that can get actor's equity organizations pissed off (this happened when the production staff of Star Trek: The Motion Picture used non-actors [including David Gerrold] in the scene where Kirk assembles the crew to see what Vejur was up to.) It might not be as bad in this instance, but incidents like that are not fun to go through.