All those human planets in TOS

[Christopher]

Even on Earth, we have millions of different, unique cultures. The intractability of the Muslim and Christian worlds alone makes each alien to each other.

Hardly. There's no "intractability" there. Islam and Christianity are both offshoots of the same Abrahamian religious tradition, along with Judaism. They have far more in common than they have with, say, Hinduism or Buddhism. Indeed, the Qu'ran explicitly defines Christians and Jews as fellow People of the Book and commands tolerance toward them -- so Muslims who treat Christians and Jews with hatred are betraying the tenets of their own faith. In the current generation, there are factions prominent in the Islamic world who are hostile toward outside cultures, but that's historically a fairly recent development; prior to the mid-20th century, Jews were actually treated much better in the Muslim world than they were in Christian Europe.

So not only do we have many different cultures on this one planet, but those cultures can change drastically over the course of a single century. If anything, this is one thing I think Enterprise got right, portraying a 22nd-century Vulcan culture that was very different from the Vulcan culture we saw in subsequent centuries.

Couldn't the Omegans also be the result of the Preservers efforts?

Time frames don't match up. Someone would have noticed if a bunch of Americans and Chinese went missing in the 1960s.

Indeed. Also, there were individual Kohms who were over a thousand years old, and that the war that devastated Omega IV happened over 10,000 years in the past. The Preservers would've had to take them back through time, and there's no evident reason why they would've done that.

 

[Vic Sixx]

I remember a book that said the Romulans were the result of the Preservers efforts, but later books contradicted that I guess.

 

[Shatmandu]

And then that one time, Kirk's uniform didn't have a command patch!

Joe, completely thrown out of the story!

 

[Christopher]

I remember a book that said the Romulans were the result of the Preservers efforts, but later books contradicted that I guess.

Ohh, there are tons of incompatible things claimed about the Preservers in the various novels that have been published over the decades. I don't recall that particular one, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Gary7]

TOS was littered with conflicting information and severe bouts of implausibility. Has there ever been a thread that discusses it? Probably one would be needed for each episode, as there's plenty afoot in each.

My biggest beef with TOS is that everybody speaks English. Eventually a universal translator device is shown (introduced in Arena, given by the Metrons--donated perhaps? They get to keep it, as it reappears in subsequent episodes). Later on in TNG, it is disclosed how there is a translator device of some kind inserted into each being, so that everyone can be understood. The "mouthing" issue is just overlooked, which of course makes perfect sense.

Anyway, the limited budget of the day made convincing alien costumes very expensive. Thus, most planets end up revealing humanoid life. In TNG, there is an episode that "connects the dots" and reveals DNA commonality amongs most sentient life across the known galaxy. I guess that helps explain why there are so many bipedal creatures about with humanoid features.

 

[BillJ]

the Omegans are some bizarre anomaly that actually duplicated America and Communist China over 10,000 years in the past, etc.

How do we know that Earth wasn't duplicated from them?

Edit: Seen someone hit the same point I just made.

 

[Christopher]

the Omegans are some bizarre anomaly that actually duplicated America and Communist China over 10,000 years in the past, etc.

How do we know that Earth wasn't duplicated from them?

By a study of Earth history. We can backtrack the cultural and philosophical influences that led to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Chinese Communist revolution, and all those influences are of Earthly origin.

 

[Gary7]

By a study of Earth history. We can backtrack the cultural and philosophical influences that led to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Chinese Communist revolution, and all those influences are of Earthly origin.

That's right--cause and effect. The influences are quite clear with a specific progression.

I think the Omega Glory had enormous potential, but that the episode time limit constrained it. It should have been a two part episode and incorporated more action. The real issue I have with it is the over-the-top obvious play on Yankees/Communists. More subtle names should have been chosen. And the writers should have crafted a different Constitution, one that achieves similar ideals without plagiarizing the original. And it would have been high time for them to introduce the "document translator"... easy to doctor up a copy machine... and then Kirk could have read what was translated. Something like this:

"We, the Yangs, have created this body of rules for the general welfare of all people, so that we may form a peaceful union which provides for equal justice and freedom for all. Let it be known that this Constitution is a sacred promise, to be cherished and followed from this time forward."

And rather than an overt copy of the United States flag, there would be something made based on an earlier copy, with the blue sphere and stars. I think all of this combined together would have lent for a more convincing "parallel" to what happened on Earth with the United States.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I don't know, the Yang constitution has to be close enough for Kirk to make the "Aha!!", which by itself is still implausible, and the viewer also has to make the connection.

When I watch episodes like this I just think of them as "Twilight Zone" episodes. They are very similar in concept and I think that part of the original idea of the show was "Twilight Zone in Space" with a consistant crew being the observers of the weird shit they passed by. TOS for me was an anthology of stories that were not really connected at all in the same universe (except for certain pairings that referenced each other, ie Harry Mudd), they just all featured the same cast of adventurers.

When I take it like that, I enjoy each and every episode for it's own merit and don't worry about canon or whatnot. And it leaves me to watch ST XI with an open mind and heart.

These types of episodes don't address my linear logic brain, they give my imagination a kick and make walk away fantasizing for the rest of the day.

 

[Christopher]

I don't know, the Yang constitution has to be close enough for Kirk to make the "Aha!!", which by itself is still implausible, and the viewer also has to make the connection.

There didn't have to be any "Aha!" at all. The story wasn't about the "Aha!" The story, at least in the first three acts, was about a starship captain turned rogue because he believed there was a fountain of youth on Omega IV. The whole Earth-parallel thing was a sudden swerve into a completely different story.

All that was necessary was for Cloud William to recognize "Freedom" as a worship word. That would've been enough for Kirk to recognize that the Yangs had degenerated from a culture that had espoused similar ideals to his own. And then he could've made a speech to them about what freedom really meant and urged them to live up to it, and thereby proven himself more worthy than Captain Tracey.

 

[Timo]

And I can't think of any way to rationalize it that isn't insanely complicated (like the planet having been settled by American and Chinese refugees who fled WWIII in sleeper ships and fell through a time warp into the distant past).

But it would suffice for a single suitably fanatic time traveler to steal one of those 19th to 21st century time machines that Earth scientists were inventing left and right, go back in time and across space, and take control of a culture that had very little resemblance to the Earth one originally. He'd bring exact copies of the relevant documents and make them into Holy Scripture, an easy thing to do if he also brought along some technology that gave him a position of power on the planet.

Not that this wouldn't be complicated. But it wouldn't be insanely complicated, considering the precedent: individuals are often shown perverting entire planets, and time travel is a distinct possibility.

Trelane was aware of events as late as the death of Alexander Hamilton, which occurred in 1804; Kirk claimed those events were 900 years in the past.

To nitpick, it was meteorologist Jaeger who suggested that nine-century figure - and not for Hamilton's death but for the costumes, decor and music that they first met at Trelane's residence. Not that anybody would have objected, but perhaps they trusted Jaeger's expertise on this. It's not as if Spock would have ever been an expert on Earth history, and Kirk's knowledge seemed to be on things relating to the 19th century United States.

Perhaps Jaeger correctly recognized the castle as being of 1300s origin, and failed to notice the bust of Napoleon or properly identify the costumes?

As for the general idea of benevolent seeder/transplanter cultures being responsible for the prevalence of humans out there, we have an alternate set of evidence as well. "Paradise Syndrome", "The 37s" and "North Star" could all be taken as indicating that it is economically viable for petty criminals to capture primitive humanoids for slave labor on shady businesses, even across great distances. An "exo-human" population transplanted this way would indeed tend toward a monobloc culture, being quite limited in numbers and initial geographical spread. Many a TOS or even TNG (say, "Code of Honor") interstellar culture could be explained this way.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gary7]

But it would suffice for a single suitably fanatic time traveler to steal one of those 19th to 21st century time machines that Earth scientists were inventing left and right, go back in time and across space, and take control of a culture that had very little resemblance to the Earth one originally. He'd bring exact copies of the relevant documents and make them into Holy Scripture, an easy thing to do if he also brought along some technology that gave him a position of power on the planet.

Not that this wouldn't be complicated. But it wouldn't be insanely complicated, considering the precedent: individuals are often shown perverting entire planets, and time travel is a distinct possibility.

I think you've got a good idea... although this would be a rehashing of what had already been done before, in a way. Remember "A Piece of the Action"? The Iotians were visited by an old Federation ship that left behind literature than influenced their entire technological and social evolution. And "Patterns of Force", whereby John Gill contaminates the Ekosian social evolution and starts a whole Nazi regime. Omega Glory could have been another variation on this theme that would help bolster this whole idea of the prime directive and why it has been put in place, because of these particular incidents.

 

[QuasarVM]

It seems that the Enterprise visited practically hundreds of planets where the inhabitants looked human. But were they humans...or aliens that merely looked human? I'm asking because I find it hard to believe that, by the time of Kirk's era, humanity would have stretched so far across the galaxy to the point where they'd exist on so many worlds. But even more curious is that they'd already have such distinct, seemingly ancient, cultures. You'd think they'd look more like colonists.

They looked human, but internally were quite different than humans.

McCoy and others made references to that from time to time. For example:

In "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" -- McCoy states he had never seen an alien with Lokai's internal anatomy before.

In "Spock's Brain", Spock/The Controller warns McCoy about using the Teacher device because "the configuration of Kara's brain" was different from a humans.

I am sure there are many other examples, but in these cases, the aliens *appeared* human on the outside but were obviously internally "alien"...

Anyway, it does serve as an explanation for aliens that existed in the form they did (identical to humans) as a budget-saving measure...

 

[Timo]

Some statistics on this would be helpful.

Cultures or individuals from outside Earth who weren't explicitly stated to be Earth colonists but were stated to be human by biology:

-Zephram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri from "Metamorphosis"

Human-looking cultures that were explicitly declared nonhuman:

-Morg and Eymorg from "Spock's Brain"

Human-looking cultures that weren't defined as biologically human nor as nonhuman, nor established as being of Earth seed:

-Halkans from "Mirror, Mirror"
-Capellans from "Friday's Child"
-Betans from "Return of the Archons"
-Kids from "Miri"
-Eminians from "A Taste of Armageddon"
-Yangs and Kohms from "Omega Glory"
-Pseudo-Romans from "Bread and Circuses"
-Zeons and Space Nazis from "Patterns of Force"
-Stratosians and Troglytes from "Cloud Minders"

Any others? The remaining category would be humans originating from Earth one way or another - and Cochrane falls in that category, too, even though it's not made explicit in the episode yet, only in the later movie.

The nine humanlike cultures that weren't explicated as being of Earth origin could possibly be connected to Earth anyway. The whole planet in "Miri" is some sort of a weird duplicate of Earth, while several of the others were monobloc cultures that could be considered lost colonies or old abduction victims of "North Star" ilk. The dialogue on Stratosians/Troglytes suggests they evolved on their world, but it doesn't solidly establish they didn't evolve on Earth first and then get transplanted. But that's all speculation: the canon statistics are given above, I think. What am I missing?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[QuasarVM]

The Kelvans from "By Any Other Name"...they were actually tentacled monstrosities who had taken human form...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the war that devastated Omega IV happened over 10,000 years in the past

Really? I don't remember that. Can you point out the relevant dialogue?

Memory Alpha says that there was a scene that was filmed, but cut (even from the 'uncut' episode), which implies that Omega IV is an Earth colony:

McCoy: Jim, the parallel's too close. They seem so completely Human. Is it possible that... ?
Kirk: The result of Earth's early space race?
Spock: Quite possible, Captain. They are aggressive enough to be Human.
McCoy: Now listen, Spock, you...

It is, indeed, a bit of a stretch to suggest that Omega IV is a colony of Earth. But does that really make any less sense than to suggest a completely alien culture could somehow develop exact copies of the US flag and Constitution? Occam's Razor would seem to apply here. Since we know those things originated on Earth, any instances of them showing up elsewhere must have been transplanted *from* Earth somehow.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I don't know, the Yang constitution has to be close enough for Kirk to make the "Aha!!", which by itself is still implausible, and the viewer also has to make the connection.

There didn't have to be any "Aha!" at all. The story wasn't about the "Aha!" The story, at least in the first three acts, was about a starship captain turned rogue because he believed there was a fountain of youth on Omega IV. The whole Earth-parallel thing was a sudden swerve into a completely different story.

All that was necessary was for Cloud William to recognize "Freedom" as a worship word. That would've been enough for Kirk to recognize that the Yangs had degenerated from a culture that had espoused similar ideals to his own. And then he could've made a speech to them about what freedom really meant and urged them to live up to it, and thereby proven himself more worthy than Captain Tracey.

That wasn't the story they chose to tell. It's the story you wish they'd told.

The rogue captian was just a device to get them into a situation. It could just as easily have been a distress call, a weird rock formation or any of a dozen devices we see on the show regularly.

The story isn't about the captian. It's about a culture that worships it's symbols but has forgotten what they mean. The story is blunt, it's written for American viewers, it's a message to stop just waving the flag and remember what message behind it was.

Tracey supporting the peaceful agrarians against the barbarous savages was meant to be a shock, the viewer is not supposed to realize until the end that they are rooting for the Communists. Waving the actual US constitution in front of us is equally as blunt as the rest of the story and it fits because entire storyline is really non-symbolic, there are no metaphores, no allegory, it is all exactly what we see, the meaning of the US symbols forgotten and replaced by thoughtless patriotism, and a mindless hatred against a people who have been determined to be an enemy but no one can explain why. As such, Kirk's "Aha!" really is the point of the story, because that is supposed to be the viewer's "Aha" as well, and shock us into examining our principles. It is not sophisticated, it is not subtle, it is very basic and on the level of an election ad, but it works in it's own way.

The episode reminds me so much of Twilight Zone because it is really more like a situation where the characters unknowingly slip into a parallel universe, rather than exploring the actual galaxy and finding the US constitution being worshiped so many light years away. If it were a Twilight Zone parallel universe it would actually be a near perfect story. I don't believe that Star Trek at that time was really trying to be all that different from TZ, certainly they weren't looking ahead and thinking about creating a logical universe that would span centuries.

 

[Christopher]

That wasn't the story they chose to tell. It's the story you wish they'd told.

Yes, that's my whole point. It's the story I wish they'd told. We're in agreement on that, so there's no need to debate it further.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

In 'Taste of...' Anon actually calls himself 'human'.
I think they were meant to be--to examine the human condition albeit from people who were in different circumstances/situations.

i prefer that alien planets have human looking people for the most part.

What does adding a nose or ear or chin or forehead do for the drama?

I think the spin-off shows lost a lot of good actors who were bothered by or afraid of heavy make-up.

Of course the exceptions----Horta, Gorn, Talosians, Vians, Catspaw aliens etc made it all the more shocking.

If Kirk had beamed down in Arena and just saw a guy? Lame. It was an 'Oh crap" moment. He looks tough!

 

[miraclefan]

Norrin Radd:

Combine that with:

The ability of a human woman to produce a child (Spock) with a Vulcan father a few centuries after a group of genetically augmented people (including Khan from "Space Seed" and "Wrath of Khan") instigated a third world war. In Deep Space Nine there was further indication that that Eugenic War resulted in the genetic manipulation of humans being illegal. What are the odds of peoples from two different star systems being able to produce a child without major genetic manipulation?

More than that. Even if we assume a Vulcan man can inseminate a human woman, in Spock's case, the resulting child has hemocyanin-based blood but is being oxygenated with his mother's hemoglobin-based blood. A baby can have problems if its mother's blood is the wrong type. I question the survival capacity of a fetus if its mother's blood is the wrong color.

Didnt we find out on ENTERPRISE that sometime in the future, phlox finds a way to get around that? We know for SURE that the terra prime doctor in DEMONS found a way ( Although not ENTIRELY succesful ) to meld human and vulcan genomes.