Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

[Hartzilla2007]

If anything, they seem rather critical of Fury's approach to just about everything, blaming his policies for a lot of the bad stuff that's happened to SHIELD.

though some of that required some major leaps of logic.

Especially since Fury's policy choices did technically stop HYDRA from taking over.

No. There's one very important way they're not right--they're vigilantes and fugitives acting against the law and without legal accountability.

Which also appears to be the case with team Gonzales.

Plus at least team Coulson is trying to work with existing law enforcement.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

He left to get married, right? Maybe his wife was killed by an enhanced person and then he came back with a vengeance?

As a rule, the phrase "with a vengeance" doesn't literally mean "seeking revenge." It's just a metaphor. It can mean to do something with violence, but it usually just means going to excess, going all-out, pulling out all the stops, etc. Like, say, "Last year this show had declining viewership, but this year its ratings are resurging with a vengeance." Or something along those lines. It's just used for emphasis.

I think Coulson's line simply means that Gonzales returned to SHIELD with fierce determination and commitment to his job, or that he achieved a lot and made a big name for himself.

Yeah, that's what I meant by it too. But people who lose their wife often find escape by applying themselves to the job. If they think their job is protecting others from the same result, that's likely to make you even more dedicated.

 

[Enterprise1701]

I dunno, I think the writers have moved beyond HYDRA at this point. Ward and 33 have become free agents, all the HYDRA leaders except Bakshi have been killed off, and Bakshi's being brainwashed to serve Ward and 33 now. Sure, Baron Strucker's still around, but he's off in Age of Ultron doing whatever he's doing. I think the show is more about the Inhumans issue at this point than it's about HYDRA, so I think it's likely that the real motive of Gonzales, Calderon, etc. is exactly what it seems: mistrust of "gifted" or "enhanced" individuals.

All the North American leaders, anyway. von Strucker's in Europe, and we don't know about the rest of the planet.

Strucker did say in the mid-credits scene of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, "There are other facilities doing HYDRA's good work. We'll feed them to Captain America and his colorful friends." Maybe that's the current overarching plan for MCU: only Strucker's HYDRA division remains at large.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He left to get married, right? Maybe his wife was killed by an enhanced person and then he came back with a vengeance?

As a rule, the phrase "with a vengeance" doesn't literally mean "seeking revenge." It's just a metaphor. It can mean to do something with violence, but it usually just means going to excess, going all-out, pulling out all the stops, etc. Like, say, "Last year this show had declining viewership, but this year its ratings are resurging with a vengeance." Or something along those lines. It's just used for emphasis.

I think Coulson's line simply means that Gonzales returned to SHIELD with fierce determination and commitment to his job, or that he achieved a lot and made a big name for himself.

Yeah, that's what I meant by it too. But people who lose their wife often find escape by applying themselves to the job. If they think their job is protecting others from the same result, that's likely to make you even more dedicated.

Are we sure the wife is dead and not someone's (Hydra's) hostage?

 

[DEWLine]

Coulson and Gonzalez seem pretty sure of it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Coulson thought Gonzalez was dead, and Gonzalez thinks that Coulson's mind is being controlled by alien blood.

Niether one of them is batting a 100.

Hmm?

How many aircraft carriers did S.H.I.E.L.D. have?

If hellicarriers can float, why can't the Iliad maybe be a hellicarrier that is floating?

Were (seaship) aircraft carriers being phased out of service in favour of hellicarriers, or did they still serve a purpose?

Iliad is a bit on the nose?

More about the fall of Troy by Homer.

 

[Reverend]

How many aircraft carriers did S.H.I.E.L.D. have?

If hellicarriers can float, why can't the Iliad maybe be a hellicarrier that is floating?

No reason at all. Indeed it's a possibility we've been discussing right here for going on three weeks now.

Until we actually see if fly or referred to as a hellicarrier then we just don't know for sure yet. Seems a waste for it not to be one. Maybe they're saving that for the season finale?

Hell, maybe the Iliad will be their season 3 mobile base of operations after whatever state AoU leaves things in. They certainly seem to be using The Bus sets less and less this season, maybe 616 will be going out in a blaze of glory before long?

 

[Guy Gardener]

(My retention is terrible. Sorry.)

In the current Ultimate Spider-Man Cartoon, Fury drives a Tri-Carrier.

Three carriers voltroned up into one massive vehicle.

Underwater with a compliment of attack submarines.

Outer space with a compliment of attack space shuttles.

Air borne with a compliment of fighter jets.

...

It's clearly a seaship, or it's a really good conjob from the writers, but wouldn't the naval section of S.H.I.E.L.D. have different uniforms from the land bound regular lot?

 

[Reverend]

(My retention is terrible. Sorry.)

In the current Ultimate Spider-Man Cartoon, Fury drives a Tri-Carrier.

Three carriers voltroned up into one massive vehicle.

Underwater with a compliment of attack submarines.

Outer space with a compliment of attack space shuttles.

Air borne with a compliment of fighter jets.

...

It's clearly a seaship, or it's a really good conjob from the writers, but wouldn't the naval section of S.H.I.E.L.D. have different uniforms from the land bound regular lot?

I doubt SHIELD ever differentiated between land, sea and air (and space!?) operations. Note how the commander of the ship is wearing a grey office suit, not a uniform and unless I missed it, is never saluted or addressed by any rank. Presumably he's just an Agent like everyone else, albeit a high level one (8 or 9?) like Hill and Hand.

Despite all the hardware and dark tac-suits SHIELD was never a military force; they are/were a stratigic intelligence agency.

As for the Iliad: as I've said before, it's possible that it looking like a Nimitz above the water level is meant to be camouflage, at least to surface radar. One assumes it has something to give sonar operator a piercing headache to prevent hostile subs getting a look at the undercarriage.

The helicarrier in Avengers had the retro-reflective panels, so it could afford to look like it's auditioning for a 'Captain Scarlet' remake.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Years ago in the comics, we saw saw a S.H.I.E.L.D. submarine carrier attack Atlantis, just before Namor levelled the (empty) city himself creating the illusion that the threat to the surface world was over.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Gordon's surname was Shumway?

 

[kitik]

Regarding the question of whether we'll see Hydra again anytime soon, I think we will. I think it'll happen around the time of Age of Ultron. It may involve Bakshi and that guy who was seen with Strucker.

 

[RJDiogenes]

He left to get married, right? Maybe his wife was killed by an enhanced person and then he came back with a vengeance?

Good point. That would explain his ideological bent-- or bent ideology.

As a rule, the phrase "with a vengeance" doesn't literally mean "seeking revenge." It's just a metaphor. It can mean to do something with violence, but it usually just means going to excess, going all-out, pulling out all the stops, etc. Like, say, "Last year this show had declining viewership, but this year its ratings are resurging with a vengeance." Or something along those lines. It's just used for emphasis.

Yes, everybody knows that. The point isn't about a random cliche in Coulson's dialogue, but the fact that Gonzalez left SHIELD and returned. That is likely to be foreshadowing something, otherwise why bring it up?

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Gordon's surname was Shumway?

That would be awesome. Wasn't he supposed to make a comeback?

 

[Reverend]

As a rule, the phrase "with a vengeance" doesn't literally mean "seeking revenge." It's just a metaphor. It can mean to do something with violence, but it usually just means going to excess, going all-out, pulling out all the stops, etc. Like, say, "Last year this show had declining viewership, but this year its ratings are resurging with a vengeance." Or something along those lines. It's just used for emphasis.

Yes, everybody knows that. The point isn't about a random cliche in Coulson's dialogue, but the fact that Gonzalez left SHIELD and returned. That is likely to be foreshadowing something, otherwise why bring it up?

I'm sure it will come up again, but it's probably just character pathos.

It would seem but trite if it turns out his wife was killed in NY or by some random gifted...or became gifted herself and committed suicide.

Actually, aside from Banner's failed attempt, I don't think that last one gets used often and when you think about it, it should be a not uncommon incident.

 

[Christopher]

Regarding the question of whether we'll see Hydra again anytime soon, I think we will. I think it'll happen around the time of Age of Ultron. It may involve Bakshi and that guy who was seen with Strucker.

Except that Bakshi is a captive of Ward and 33, who are brainwashing him to do their bidding. His loyalties presumably won't be with HYDRA anymore. Although I suppose it's possible they might send him against HYDRA.

Still, I kind of suspect that the show is deliberately trying to avoid covering the same subject matters as AoU. They had to tie strongly into The Winter Soldier because that movie was about SHIELD, but that created a lot of problems for the show and was difficult to pull off. In general, it would be safer and more freeing to avoid more than a token overlap with the movie -- which would be an incentive for avoiding anything AoU-related and focusing instead on the Inhumans stuff and the inside baseball within SHIELD.

Although on the other hand, Fury appears to play a significant role in AoU, and we're in the midst of a storyline that's heavily driven by Fury's legacy. So there may be a tie-in planned there. It's possible that the events of AoU will force Fury to come out of hiding and reveal he's still alive, and then that could have a decisive effect on the conflict going on between Team Coulson and Team Gonzales.

But I don't believe we're just going to see another crossover about HYDRA in the show parallelling HYDRA in the film, because that's what they did the last time. They probably want to avoid repeating themselves.

 

[DWF]

Regarding the question of whether we'll see Hydra again anytime soon, I think we will. I think it'll happen around the time of Age of Ultron. It may involve Bakshi and that guy who was seen with Strucker.

Except that Bakshi is a captive of Ward and 33, who are brainwashing him to do their bidding. His loyalties presumably won't be with HYDRA anymore. Although I suppose it's possible they might send him against HYDRA.

Still, I kind of suspect that the show is deliberately trying to avoid covering the same subject matters as AoU. They had to tie strongly into The Winter Soldier because that movie was about SHIELD, but that created a lot of problems for the show and was difficult to pull off. In general, it would be safer and more freeing to avoid more than a token overlap with the movie -- which would be an incentive for avoiding anything AoU-related and focusing instead on the Inhumans stuff and the inside baseball within SHIELD.

Although on the other hand, Fury appears to play a significant role in AoU, and we're in the midst of a storyline that's heavily driven by Fury's legacy. So there may be a tie-in planned there. It's possible that the events of AoU will force Fury to come out of hiding and reveal he's still alive, and then that could have a decisive effect on the conflict going on between Team Coulson and Team Gonzales.

But I don't believe we're just going to see another crossover about HYDRA in the show parallelling HYDRA in the film, because that's what they did the last time. They probably want to avoid repeating themselves.

But AOS will have to adapt to the changing MCU landscape following The Age Of Ultron, it's not a mater of repeating themselves it's more a matter of continuity. And really both AIM and Hydra were long running enemies of SHIELD in the comics so I would imagine Hydra will return in some form.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I don't think we've seen the last of HYDRA proper on the show, they're just on the back burner for the time being.

 

[Mr Light]

Did they dismantle the airplane set? I don't think we've seen the interior of the plane once in Season Two. They seem to have only retailed the jail cell, the cockpit, and the loading bay. I'm guessing they used that space for the new SHIELD base sets?

 

[DEWLine]

Since this season started, we've seen most of the Bus barring the pod bays and weapons control. Cockpit, main briefing/lounge, the Cage, and the loading bay have all seen steady use, and they've added the "classic" Quinjet in addition to the Playground sets.

Hoping we get to see the schematics for the Playground. I'm guessing they'll be at least a four-storey facility?

 

[Mr Light]

have we seen the main fuselage this season though? the one with the glass walls and the interactive table briefing room?

 

[Christopher]

^I seem to recall a couple of scenes of the team gathered around the briefing table this season. Although they're less necessary now that we have Coulson's office and the Playground lab and the like.