Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)
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That's been par for the course for Hydra in both the comics and movies so far.
Considering that HYDRA affiliate Ian Quinn is in charge of the multinational conglomerate Quinn Worldwide, it's not a stretch that HYDRA has lots of sources of funding. Plus incidents like when Garrett's cell stole S.H.I.E.L.D.'s weapons and other valuables in the Fridge.
Had a thought about Captain America II.
Hydra said it was waiting to be asked to take over the world.
Their time table was to wait to be asked.
But they can't be asked by some stuffed shirt random patsy asshole?
They had to pick the right ignorant person who had the responsibility and credibility to ask for the world that would be representative of the worlds needs...
15 years ago, more, they picked Nick Fury.
He was the most noble warrior on the side of good.
The spirit of the country if you will.
If he decided, the world would accept it.
Just wait for him to come to the decision by himself.
Otherwise he will fight us.
Fighting sucks.
Probably lose.
They will hand Hydra power when the personification of America, Nick Fury, decides that the time is right.
Here's the problem.
Captain America outranks Nick Fury.
It was no longer Fury's decision to make.
But Hydra was so invested in Fury, that they didn't have the patience to start over again from the beginning by assigning Steve Rogers to the position of the decider. That person who will hand over America willingly to Hydra because it is the right thing to do.
They half assed it.
So it turned into a fight, instead of a polite handover.
Morons.
Hydra said it was waiting to be asked to take over the world.
Their time table was to wait to be asked.
But they can't be asked by some stuffed shirt random patsy asshole?
They had to pick the right ignorant person who had the responsibility and credibility to ask for the world that would be representative of the worlds needs...
15 years ago, more, they picked Nick Fury.
He was the most noble warrior on the side of good.
The spirit of the country if you will.
If he decided, the world would accept it.
Just wait for him to come to the decision by himself.
Otherwise he will fight us.
Fighting sucks.
Probably lose.
They will hand Hydra power when the personification of America, Nick Fury, decides that the time is right.
Here's the problem.
Captain America outranks Nick Fury.
It was no longer Fury's decision to make.
But Hydra was so invested in Fury, that they didn't have the patience to start over again from the beginning by assigning Steve Rogers to the position of the decider. That person who will hand over America willingly to Hydra because it is the right thing to do.
They half assed it.
So it turned into a fight, instead of a polite handover.
Morons.
A system that couldn't figure out that Nick Fury was embezzling God-knows-how-many millions in cash and equipment, probably wouldn't notice Hydra stealing the country blind either.
Sounds like Manson's helter skelter.
I took it as less "waiting to be asked" and more "waiting until people found it acceptable for government to "do more" in the name of protection."
Which, really, you could take as mirroring present-day, real-world, politics and situations where a lot of people are okay with various types of government intrusions because, "I'm doing nothing wrong."
Sixty to seventy years ago Americans may have had a lot of problems with government being able to listen in to their phone-calls, read their correspondence with others and whatever other ways you want to adapt today's USA PATRIOT Act policies and other things going on into a 1940s setting. Especially once a more "peaceful time" came in the baby-boom era after World War II where few threats were seen by Americans.
So in the Marvel Universe Hydra tried to take over the world but were met with resistance by people willing to fight for their freedom and not wanting to be ruled by single super-power with goals of weeding out undesired segments of the population.
Flash-forward to today (both in the MCU universe and our own) where we're bombarded almost constantly by terrorist threats and whenever one of these things happen or almost happen there's a lot of question on what government is doing for us in order to keep us safe. People become more and more willing to give up freedoms and convenience in the name of feeling safe.
People gripe about pat-downs and taking off their shoes at the airport but many tolerate it because it's keeping us safe since 13 years ago a handful of people managed to hijack four airplanes pretty much for the first-time ever in American skies. One guy tries to, and fails, to detonate a crude bomb made in his shoes, so we're okay with our shoes being "inspected" to make sure that's not tried again.
Some of the things people have accepted in the name of "security" in the last 14-15 years has all stemmed from a single, albeit very successful, terrorist attack. People tend to WANT government to step-in and do more to "protect us" and many are okay with it because they don't feel they have anything to fear so long as they're doing nothing wrong. Sort of forgetting what the whole "freedom" thing means.
This brings us to the MCU where inside of a couple of years there's been numerous large-scale attacks in cities (and small desert towns) due to corrupt business practices and foreign terrorists all culminating into a very large-scale attack by aliens on New York City.
So, Americans in the MCU -like Americans in president-day real world- want their government to do more to keep us safe. Enter: Hydra and Project Insight. Where the opportunity has finally presented itself where people are willing to give up their freedoms in order to feel safe. If this means launching three massive, flying, battleships that can kill anyone at anytime for whatever reason those controlling things see fit, so be it. I have nothing to worry about, I'm doing nothing wrong.
But, as the movie shows us the thing to worry about is the ones controlling the things supposedly protecting us. We *think* we're doing nothing wrong but what if what were doing is wrong to the guy with his finger on the trigger? I talk on my phone, send out my email, live my life but what if the government thinks I'm stepping over a line and need to be dealt with. (Which in the real world may mean a talking to, a legal hassle and my name on a no-fly list dependent on the level of threat they think I possess.)
In the MCU, Hydra is in control of the Insight Helicarriers and they see anyone who is not part of their ranks or sympathetic to their causes as a threat, hence their plans to wipe out nearly a million people the moment the ships had contact with the satellite network. And by that point the people of the world will see the problem with giving so much power to their government (or an organization working for the government) but by that point it's too late. Which also translates into present-day politics given that it's easier to give the government control than it is to get it back.
Really, a lot of nice parallels in the movie between the events going on in the MCU and the real world. For them, though, it's aliens and hard-core Nazi groups. For us it's people who *might* one day try and to blow up a plane by setting his underwear on fire.
The fact that Project Insight was a not remotely subtle nod to drone warfare and how apathetically easily it's applied today was a big clue to the "people handing over their freedom" principle Hydra was going for.
And by big clue I mean being smacked in the face with it.
They just needed the right tipping point of fear, when everyone was finally paranoid enough to let it all happen, when everyone willingly signed over their freedom.
And you have to admit, up until the last second, they did a pretty good job of it.
Fury may have been the mascot they needed everyone to rally around, someone who genuinely believed what he was saying to really sell the point, but after a time he was expendable. He wasn't the trigger really.
And by big clue I mean being smacked in the face with it.
They just needed the right tipping point of fear, when everyone was finally paranoid enough to let it all happen, when everyone willingly signed over their freedom.
And you have to admit, up until the last second, they did a pretty good job of it.
Fury may have been the mascot they needed everyone to rally around, someone who genuinely believed what he was saying to really sell the point, but after a time he was expendable. He wasn't the trigger really.
Yeah, it wasn't *too* subtle, but at the same time you have to be willing to, and able to, read between the lines. I doubt many people saw the parallels between Insight and the Drone Program or any underlying message. Mostly because many people today just like to take the idea of "I'm doing nothing wrong, I have nothing to fear."
Now, granted, we *don't* have to worry about a decades-old para-Nazi group controlling the drone program and scratching people off the list simply because they're not sympathetic to their causes. Hell, we don't have to worry about people being droned-out because they vote for the opposing party. But the idea is still there that those in control of the program have that capability within their reach and they can still take people out without much more than an implied threat or at the very least spy on people doing nothing worthy of spying on. (Even simple-old warrantless wire/phone/data taps are taken advantage of and used on people who're non-threats.)
So CA2 took the idea of the drone program and turned the dial to 11, sure, but usually you do that to make your point about an issue. I'm personally not worried about a drone taking me out or my phone/internet being monitored and tapped by the government. Frankly, I'm not interest and, well, I *don't* have anything to hide. But I don't think government should have the ability to do those things unless they have reasonable, and tangible, suspicion I may be involved in illegal activity that needs to be monitored in order to make a case.
But there's been so many asterisks and non-specifics written into these laws anymore that they don't need to go that far, just sort of have a suspicion you're maybe connected to terrorists.
Yeah, the parallels between the USA PATRIOT Act, drone program, and other things our real-world, present-day government does and the willingness for Americans to go along them aren't *entirely* subtle in CA2 with the Insight program but I wouldn't be surprised if many people over looked them and just took the movie for being a movie.
But, those aware of the issues and what's going on in the world today and taking those ideas and cranking the knob to 11 turning the NSA into Hydra and unmanned drones into Helicarriers? Yeah, the similarities are right, damn, there.
I'm sure many people saw them.
I thought the drone strike allegory was fairly blatant and I'd be surprised if anyone didn't pick up on it. I mean they're aircraft that quasi-remotely target and kill individuals from high altitude because their name or face is one some list or intelligence report. Blurring the line between military action and summery execution with the added dimension of the technology being turned against civilians.
Hell the whole film was positively dripping with post-9/11 allegory. The drone thing was just one element among many.
Hell the whole film was positively dripping with post-9/11 allegory. The drone thing was just one element among many.
Agents of SHIELD: 2x02 "Heavy is the Head"
Exactly, it was slap-in-the-face obvious. They didn't want the idea to be subtle, they wanted it to be in everyones faces and to make people be uncomfortable with it.
http://marvel.com/news/tv/23358/declassifying_marvels_agents_of_shield_face_my_enemy
Well this description for episode 4 looks hopeful for advancing the Words of Creation plot thread.
Well this description for episode 4 looks hopeful for advancing the Words of Creation plot thread.
What happened with May's trip to Korea(?) in last season's finale, btw? Did I miss a quick reference or some bonus material somewhere, or has it been mentioned that they'll pick up that thread later in the season?
Maybe I'm remembering wrong. I thought May mentioned something about needing to take a trip to Korea, but it might have been earlier in the season, or I'm just having a brainfart.
What do you mean? The Words of Creation have already been established.
Ick, that death rod is creeping me out. 
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