Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
^Agreed.
^Agreed.
A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterization
- Thread starter The Overlord
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Yeah, DS9 was lagging network drama in the 1990s. It only compared well to some skiffy stuff.
Yeah, DS9 was lagging network drama in the 1990s. It only compared well to some skiffy stuff.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
There have been plenty and there are right now. They just don't feature spaceships and ray-guns.
Skiffy fans used to complain that their shows - like DS9 - didn't get nominated for acting or writing or dramatic awards at the Emmys because of some alleged prejudice. That's never been the reason; quality is.
There have been plenty and there are right now. They just don't feature spaceships and ray-guns.
Skiffy fans used to complain that their shows - like DS9 - didn't get nominated for acting or writing or dramatic awards at the Emmys because of some alleged prejudice. That's never been the reason; quality is.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
I'd put The Visitor or In The Pale Moonlight up there with anything I've seen shows in other genres do, really. It's just that sci-fi requires imagination to enjoy and people hate using theirs.
Shit like Desperate Housewives or Sex and the City got nominated for awards. You're telling me they produce episodes better than Duet? Seriously?
I'd put The Visitor or In The Pale Moonlight up there with anything I've seen shows in other genres do, really. It's just that sci-fi requires imagination to enjoy and people hate using theirs.
Shit like Desperate Housewives or Sex and the City got nominated for awards. You're telling me they produce episodes better than Duet? Seriously?
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
I do agree that DS9 probably was the best in terms of character development for the most part at least.
As far as the size issue is concerned I'm not really fussed about whether or not it's a small cast or a larger one like DS9 as long as it's a new Trek series that's good
If I had to stick my neck out however I don't think they'll do a small cast of 4-5 I think their more likely to do a similar size to the likes of Enterprise or Voyager.
Totally agree.
Have interesting, compelling, well thought out and engaging characters, rather than having to fill the helm with a series regular, squeezing in a character of a different colour, or making it all about the boobs.
It'd be interesting to see a new series scale back the number of main characters. Saying that however, DS9 had by for the biggest cast of main and recurring and was also the most consistent with development.
Plus the big explosions helped
I do agree that DS9 probably was the best in terms of character development for the most part at least.
As far as the size issue is concerned I'm not really fussed about whether or not it's a small cast or a larger one like DS9 as long as it's a new Trek series that's good
If I had to stick my neck out however I don't think they'll do a small cast of 4-5 I think their more likely to do a similar size to the likes of Enterprise or Voyager.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
The Emmy awards segregate their prizes between comedies and dramas. Desperate Houswives and Sex and the City were both considered in the comedic category. Looking at the dramatic competition, it is not hard to see why most sf fare has been ignored, Berman-era Star Trek included.
The Emmy awards segregate their prizes between comedies and dramas. Desperate Houswives and Sex and the City were both considered in the comedic category. Looking at the dramatic competition, it is not hard to see why most sf fare has been ignored, Berman-era Star Trek included.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Yep - this is so, and not hard to understand if you pay attention.
Yep - this is so, and not hard to understand if you pay attention.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Well, I'd definitely rate Deep Space 9 and Babylon 5 as better drama than mediocre shlock like CSI or House if we're talking about shows nominated for that category.
Thankfully I tend to value sci-fi award bodies more than the showbiz ones. Those are just an excuse for celebrities to pat eachother on the back.
Well, I'd definitely rate Deep Space 9 and Babylon 5 as better drama than mediocre shlock like CSI or House if we're talking about shows nominated for that category.
Thankfully I tend to value sci-fi award bodies more than the showbiz ones. Those are just an excuse for celebrities to pat eachother on the back.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
There's always been a certain amount of silliness in Trek that we're all used to more or less overlooking because we really like the rest of it, or at least that's my experience. That shouldn't lead us to pretend the silliness isn't there.
There's always been a certain amount of silliness in Trek that we're all used to more or less overlooking because we really like the rest of it, or at least that's my experience. That shouldn't lead us to pretend the silliness isn't there.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Another thing - "Duet" is not some brilliant high-water mark in American dramatic television. It's a good story, very derivative of a well-regarded film, and it's something perhaps a bit more sophisticated for modern Star Trek than fans were accustomed to in most of the years of TNG that had preceded DS9 - that's all.
That does establish the boundaries of your taste fairly definitively.
And sci-fi awards shows are nothing but opportunities for fans to flatter themselves. So nu?
Another thing - "Duet" is not some brilliant high-water mark in American dramatic television. It's a good story, very derivative of a well-regarded film, and it's something perhaps a bit more sophisticated for modern Star Trek than fans were accustomed to in most of the years of TNG that had preceded DS9 - that's all.
That does establish the boundaries of your taste fairly definitively.
And sci-fi awards shows are nothing but opportunities for fans to flatter themselves. So nu?
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Neither C.S.I. Nor House were nominated in years either of those sf series were eligible, anyways. Might as well also complain about past nominees like Dallas or Dynasty being inferior to whatever personal favorite you happen to have.
Neither C.S.I. Nor House were nominated in years either of those sf series were eligible, anyways. Might as well also complain about past nominees like Dallas or Dynasty being inferior to whatever personal favorite you happen to have.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Yeah, I need to see The Man in the Glass Booth, which was a few years before my time, for that sort of thing.
Yeah, I need to see The Man in the Glass Booth, which was a few years before my time, for that sort of thing.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Yet when said show is produced and made, certain fans of an older age will be complaining about it being 'too modern' as well as complaining that 'it's too dirty/filthy/dark and my kids can't see it because of that', so they'll either stick with the older shows on DVD or with the fan productions like Phase II because Phase II's 'the real Star Trek'. Mark my words and make of this what you will.
Yet when said show is produced and made, certain fans of an older age will be complaining about it being 'too modern' as well as complaining that 'it's too dirty/filthy/dark and my kids can't see it because of that', so they'll either stick with the older shows on DVD or with the fan productions like Phase II because Phase II's 'the real Star Trek'. Mark my words and make of this what you will.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
characterisation + violence + boobies is the key.
Trek of Thrones!
characterisation + violence + boobies is the key.
Trek of Thrones!
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
And would those be "Hot Alien Babe" TOS-Style Boobies or Lost in Space-Style "Dunder Headed Boobies"?
So...Exploding Boobies is the way to go now?
And would those be "Hot Alien Babe" TOS-Style Boobies or Lost in Space-Style "Dunder Headed Boobies"?
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Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Dunno, because of the rest of my quote that was overlooked:
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Unlikeable characters are practically mandatory on cable/streaming now, and since there's no chance a Trek series would be made solely for broadcast (assuming broadcast even survives long enough), then the next series is most likely going to follow suit in that regards.
None of the Trek series will be used as a model. They are too far in the rear-view mirror. The TV business has moved on and the new successful genre series - Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead - are more likely to be models because they are the closest you can get nowadays to sic fi/cult audience stuff, and they are successful right now, not ten or twenty or fifty years ago.
So there will be more sex, lots more violence and gore, political machinations, backstabbing characters, adult themes, etc. More serialization and more attention to characterization than even DS9. No more Ferengi comedies and romances of the week. Sounds good to me.
Of course an animated series for kids would follow entirely different rules. in that case, it would be like The Clone Wars.
Predicting the form that the next series will take is easy. TV is nothing if not predictable. First, find out where it's going to be shown. Then look around for successful current examples of shows that are some kind of sci fi or close to it. That's what it will be like.
Unlikeable characters are practically mandatory on cable/streaming now, and since there's no chance a Trek series would be made solely for broadcast (assuming broadcast even survives long enough), then the next series is most likely going to follow suit in that regards.
None of the Trek series will be used as a model. They are too far in the rear-view mirror. The TV business has moved on and the new successful genre series - Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead - are more likely to be models because they are the closest you can get nowadays to sic fi/cult audience stuff, and they are successful right now, not ten or twenty or fifty years ago.
So there will be more sex, lots more violence and gore, political machinations, backstabbing characters, adult themes, etc. More serialization and more attention to characterization than even DS9. No more Ferengi comedies and romances of the week. Sounds good to me.
Of course an animated series for kids would follow entirely different rules. in that case, it would be like The Clone Wars.
Predicting the form that the next series will take is easy. TV is nothing if not predictable. First, find out where it's going to be shown. Then look around for successful current examples of shows that are some kind of sci fi or close to it. That's what it will be like.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
Crew beams to the planet surface to rescue survivors.
Kirk: McCoy, check 'em out.
McCoy runs his medical tricorder on a few survivors. He stops short when he gets to a young lady. His eyes widen.
Kirk: Bones. Bones, what is it?
Young Woman (to McCoy): Hello, father.
Angle on McCoy then--
whoosh!
McCoy at Joana's birth.
Hey, why not? It could work.
Personally, I'd prefer an animated series to a live-action one, with a focus not on action and space battles, but exploration and character. Something like LOST, complete with Lost-style flashbacks of a character in each episode where we learn their histories, what makes them who they are today, how they ended up in Starfleet and how they each ended up on the Enterprise.
Crew beams to the planet surface to rescue survivors.
Kirk: McCoy, check 'em out.
McCoy runs his medical tricorder on a few survivors. He stops short when he gets to a young lady. His eyes widen.
Kirk: Bones. Bones, what is it?
Young Woman (to McCoy): Hello, father.
Angle on McCoy then--
whoosh!
McCoy at Joana's birth.
Hey, why not? It could work.
Re: A New Star Trek Show Will Need a Stronger Focus on Characterizatio
I think one of the biggest issues with pre-2009 Trek was that it had begun to take itself way too seriously and had stopped becoming fun for anyone other than diehard Trekkies. It had become more inaccessible than accessible to a larger audience. A new Trek series probably will be very much like the Abrams movies in tone and will have no more sex, violence, etc., than those. And yes, there probably will be periodic comedic and romance episodes, although they probably won't feature Ferengi...maybe.
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