8X04 "Listen" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!
- Thread starter Samurai8472
- Start date
It's not even like he's doing it to be cruel or out of spite. It's just meant to be an indicator of his lack of social skills - like the near-panic when she went to hug him or the way he nearly scared the living crap out of Rupert. I think he's almost like a high-functioning autistic at times.
Not really, there might still have been another few planets left other than Malcassario and the Doctor simply visited one and travelled a bit further into the future than he did in "Utopia"
True, but I never got the impression that they were ever the colonial types. I mean these guys like to build citadels and watch over things. I'm no expert on Dr. Who lore but I don't recall there ever being any mention of them inhabiting other planets.
That aside, in 'The Day of the Doctor' it seemed as though Gallifrey was under siege and they'd pulled all the way back. I doubt even the Doctor could land on a nearby planet unnoticed by the Dalek fleet. More to the point I'm pretty sure they said that everywhere and everywhen else in the universe was currently burning, so I doubt there was anywhere else he *could* have landed. At that point Gallifrey must have been the proverbial eye of the hurricane.
I mean technically it *could* be on a different planet since I don't think it was ever categorically stated one way or the other, but I think the balance of probability leans towards it being Gallifrey.
Small aside, but it just now occurs to me that the idea that the Doctor was an orphan may have been foreshadowed at least as early as 'The Girl in the Fireplace' with Reinette's "such a lonely childhood!" comment.
Maybe, maybe not. I mean Spock had a mother and a father, yet often the impression is given that he had a lonely childhood due to being half human...
...I don't like where this is going so I'm going to stop right there!
Αnd Danny Pink as the Father.
Moreover, does the show indicate to the Doctor being an orphan?
If it was just that line on it's own, sure and that's probably more or less what we all assumed at the time. My point is that what we saw in this episode seems to shed new light on it.
Honestly I wouldn't lend it so much credence if not for the fact that both episodes in question were written by Moffat. At the very least I'd say he seems to want to float the possibility, if not state it outright.
You should probably consider the fact that:
1. I was talking about the Doctor and Clara, and
2. I was talking about friendship in general.
Getting personal about this is uncalled-for.
Whereas I really liked that that question was left unanswered. This was an instance where not having all the i's dotted and t's crossed worked particularly well. But to each their own.
Yes, shut up immediately with that awful line of thought.
[OT] As an aside, I've always had a bit of a warped thought that the Doctor-is-half-human crap was some sort of puerile attempt to drag in Trek fans. I doubt I'm the only one who a) had the same idea and b) thought the half-human idea was an utterly stupid one (regardless of the reason). [/OT]
Maybe, maybe not. Children can be cruel excluding other children from the group/bullying etc.. for any number of reasons.
It was just one more stupidity about that movie. As I've said elsewhere, Paul McGann was magnificent. He nailed the Doctor's character perfectly. The rest of the movie was utter crap.Whereas I really liked that that question was left unanswered. This was an instance where not having all the i's dotted and t's crossed worked particularly well. But to each their own.
Yes, shut up immediately with that awful line of thought.
[OT] As an aside, I've always had a bit of a warped thought that the Doctor-is-half-human crap was some sort of puerile attempt to drag in Trek fans. I doubt I'm the only one who a) had the same idea and b) thought the half-human idea was an utterly stupid one (regardless of the reason). [/OT]
I wouldn't be surprised if they did, honestly. We know from the Doctor Who movies (1996) the Doctor is half human on his MOTHER's side. I jest I jest. But with the way Moffat is amping Clara's importance; one had to ask, is there any part of the Doctor's life that doesn't have Clara's fingerprints on it?
It's gotten to the point that the entire mythos of the show is dependent on something Clara has done. Hopefully this stops soon.
It's hyperbole. Clara saved the Doctor from the Great Intelligence's attack and she soothed his fears one night when he was a child. That's it. That's all she's done. There's really no reason to hyperventilate over that kind of thing.
It's mostly been said previously here, but my tuppence worth:
This started off as a really good episode, but once again it turned into half a dozen vaguely connected stories and it sort of fell apart logically. Just quickly, I'll deconstruct a bit:
The start was great and set up a nice creepy vibe. If I am honest, I don't mind that the writing on the board was the Doctor's, but it's odd that he'd not remember - I don't ever recall him having cognitive disassociation disorder.
The bits with Clara on a date, and in fact the whole picking her up each week, meh. Don't care, but at least it had something to do with the story this time.
The bed monster - you can't set it up like that and then have no explanation. If you show a monster ipso facto than it's a monster. If the creature under the bed spread was a stupid brat than why do you show the cover ever coming off - far more creepy if you are unwilling to go through with the reveal. Secondly, how fast can a kid move? And silently with a flash? Nah, that was not a kid, it was a disappointing cop out. As a side note, someone in the room with me did suggest it might be Jimmy Saville, so it wasn't only Phil Morris.
The base section was interesting, but as said before, it was a whole episode in itself. It felt truncated. I can forgive the space suit as the bed monster really suggested a low budget for this episode.
The barn was also good-ish, but I am getting bored with Clara. They've done the "Impossible Girl" thing now, that's over, so why are they still shoehorning her into every formative part of the Doctor's past (assuming that is the Doctor, which on the balance of probability it probably is). She's now just an annoying smart arse, and the segues into her life don't drive the Doctor Who plot forward, but rather her story. Which is dull. It might have been better if a) she disappeared into the Doctor's time stream and that was that on Trenzalore, b) they did a Donna and plonked her back where she came from (either with or without amnesia), or c) bumped her off.
What else? Well, I think Danny Pink is a bit of a dick really. Ok, it's probably down to PTSD or similar, but he's still a bit of dick. I'm supposed to empathise with the character and I don't, I just dislike him. Not as much as Clara though.
This started off as a really good episode, but once again it turned into half a dozen vaguely connected stories and it sort of fell apart logically. Just quickly, I'll deconstruct a bit:
The start was great and set up a nice creepy vibe. If I am honest, I don't mind that the writing on the board was the Doctor's, but it's odd that he'd not remember - I don't ever recall him having cognitive disassociation disorder.
The bits with Clara on a date, and in fact the whole picking her up each week, meh. Don't care, but at least it had something to do with the story this time.
The bed monster - you can't set it up like that and then have no explanation. If you show a monster ipso facto than it's a monster. If the creature under the bed spread was a stupid brat than why do you show the cover ever coming off - far more creepy if you are unwilling to go through with the reveal. Secondly, how fast can a kid move? And silently with a flash? Nah, that was not a kid, it was a disappointing cop out. As a side note, someone in the room with me did suggest it might be Jimmy Saville, so it wasn't only Phil Morris.
The base section was interesting, but as said before, it was a whole episode in itself. It felt truncated. I can forgive the space suit as the bed monster really suggested a low budget for this episode.
The barn was also good-ish, but I am getting bored with Clara. They've done the "Impossible Girl" thing now, that's over, so why are they still shoehorning her into every formative part of the Doctor's past (assuming that is the Doctor, which on the balance of probability it probably is). She's now just an annoying smart arse, and the segues into her life don't drive the Doctor Who plot forward, but rather her story. Which is dull. It might have been better if a) she disappeared into the Doctor's time stream and that was that on Trenzalore, b) they did a Donna and plonked her back where she came from (either with or without amnesia), or c) bumped her off.
What else? Well, I think Danny Pink is a bit of a dick really. Ok, it's probably down to PTSD or similar, but he's still a bit of dick. I'm supposed to empathise with the character and I don't, I just dislike him. Not as much as Clara though.
She presumably saved Doctor in every adventure he ever had. As seen in TNOTD where they digitally inserted her in to previous episodes. Despite the mechanics of her contributions not being given or her presence being explained.
In TNOTD they digitally insert her in to past episodes. Most of which involve the Doctor escaping trouble by his own means or someone else or some other force coming to his aid (Omega, Glitz, Time Vortex).
http://news.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/the-name-of-the-doctor-past-references/
She also convinced the First Doctor to steal the right Tardis. Although how Clara could tell one time capsule apart from another begs the question. Recall that the Tardis did not like Clara because like Jack Harkness, she was impossible.
Clara convinced the 11th Doctor to change his mind about using the Moment, which subsequently helped save Galifrey from destruction.
Clara convinced the Time Lords through the crack on Trenzalore to help the Doctor. Thereby granting the Doctor a new set of regeneration and changing the future of the Doctor dying on Trenzalore.
Most recently, Clara parrotted the Doctor's own word's about fear and courage to his child self. Which presumably inspired the Doctor to become the man we know him as.
So yeah, Clara's fingerprints are on a lot of things regarding the Doctor Who Canon.
The show never once implied that Clara saved him in every adventure. She simply went back to undo, or counter the Great Intelligences interference with the Doctors timeline.
And I think that's what many may not be considering. Clara didn't guide/control The Doctor's Life, she fought a Time War with The Great Intelligence, and righted those things that The GI attempted to pervert into disasters/losses, instead of wins.
Wherever the young Doctor was could've been Galliferyan military/summer camp.
Yeah, then the question would be... Is the summer camp off-planet or off-present? It would be kinda cool if Gallifreyan children took their vacations in another time – I'd hate it if I was a kid there and my parents didn't take me to other times, especially if I was to make a time lord one day. There's even the possibly they took vacation on Earth in some interesting era, which would explain the clothing, barn and Doctor's infatuation with Earth, while being somewhat creepy.
Well, that can't be true since the barn from TDOTD wasn't on Earth (presumably), but that aside, it's an fun thing to think about - it could be made to work if Clara got the location wrong. Or if TDOTD took place in the remnants of some civilization – which wouldn't explain how the barn still stands, but whatever.
I find it kind of annoying, they've already established that Danny is haunted by his experiences at war but Clara continues to make irreverent comments about killing and all that which set him off. Maybe that's the point, there is a remarkable number of examples where the word killing is used casually that we wouldn't think about and to someone with PTSD that can be an unwelcome reminder. But their relationship seriously needs to develop into something other than Clara making some off-hand reference to killing and Danny getting all moody.
He could have been at a Gallifreyan boarding school, or maybe it was something like Lungbarrow with multiple "cousins" all living together.
If anything, I'd say the barn has to be on Gallifrey, in its relative present day. Otherwise, why would the War Doctor expect activating the Moment within the barn to destroy Gallifrey?
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