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8X04 "Listen" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!
- Thread starter Samurai8472
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Sigh...
Clearly it was designed to be ambiguous for the viewing audience, the majority of whom wouldn't be pausing/screen grabbing and getting their magnifyng glass out
If they didn't want people studying it, they shouldn't have shown the head at all!
We're DW fans, of course we're going to scrutinize it!Mr Awe
It's quite clearly Sloth from the Goonies. Or possibly The Hills Have Eyes' Michael Berryman.
In regards to the barn's location, in the scripts I can find for DOTD, and the leaked script of 'Listen':
The Listen script just lists the location as 'Barn'
The DOTD script also calls the barn scene 'Barn', but the part where the War Doctor is walking with the Moment, the location is called 'Desert Planet'.
I am pretty sure this is not Gallifrey.
The Listen script just lists the location as 'Barn'
The DOTD script also calls the barn scene 'Barn', but the part where the War Doctor is walking with the Moment, the location is called 'Desert Planet'.
I am pretty sure this is not Gallifrey.
Actually, that's easy enough to explain, the billion billion Daleks are more concerned with the Time Lord Citadel, Arcadia, and other major cities on Gallifrey than they are with an abandoned barn in the middle of the desert. As for why the Time Lords wouldn't look for him there, there's plenty of reasons:
-They don't know about the barn and its importance to him. Hell, the only people who do know how important the place is to the Doctor are Clara and the Moment itself.
-Everyone probably expects the Doctor to run anywhere in time and space that no one would think to look for him in an abandoned barn.
-Rassilon and the Council aren't bothering to look for him anyway, they're busy doing what we saw them doing in The End of Time.
-The General and his friend are busy trying to defend Gallifrey from the Daleks to worry about the Doctor. And besides, on some level, the General is kind of on the Doctor's side anyway.
But then you got Trial of a Time Lord, which shows that Time Lords can access the Matrix and look into their future. Odd the Matrix never warned them about the Time War. Even odder Rassilon and the Council relied on the ramblings and scribblings of the Visionary instead of just accessing the Matrix and watching how everything would play out.
As for why the Doctor never goes back to warn his previous selves about what's to come, Day of the Doctor hints that whenever multiple Doctors meet, the younger ones forget the once they part ways. It's established at the end that both the War Doctor and Tenth Doctor are going to forget what they did once they take off, and if we assume the Curator is indeed a future Doctor, it would explain why in Time of the Doctor the Eleventh Doctor seemed to forget he had confirmation Gallifrey was saved and why he believed he was on his last life. So theoretically, Capaldi could go back, warn say Pertwee about what's to come, which would do no good since as soon as Capaldi left, Pertwee would instantly forget what he was told.
But then we still have the nagging issue, if the barn is not on Gallifrey, than how does pressing the big red button on the Moment while inside the barn destroy Gallifrey?
Look closer. The light/lens flare behind it is distorting the shape. Plus if it's a kid with curly, thicker, longish hair the blur will do the rest to make it look weird.
Edit to clarify: and if you look even closer than that you can see that the backround goes from blurry to veeeeery blurry the instant the blanket comes off. watch the light when that happens to see how much.
It's not a nagging issue at all. The Moment was conscious and alive. It gave the Doctor a big red button because that's what he thought he wanted. It seemed more symbolic than anything. I don't think The Moment has to physically be on Gallifrey for it to destroy Gallifrey; it just has to know what its target is.
I mean, The Moment had the power to open a time window and send the War Doctor to a his own future in order to guide him to make the right decision. I really don't think geography is a big obstacle for it.
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
It was also referred to as "The galaxy heater", so maybe it would've destroyed more than Gallifrey? The Nestenes in Rose for instance seemed to suffer from the war, their protein planets destroyed or something like that. Also the Gelth.
Not sure why everyone's focusing on just the thing under the blanket. To me the much harder thing to refute is the knocking behind the spaceship door. It clearly wasn't just the Doctor's imagination because Clara heard it too. And no way did it sound simply like decompressing air or whatever alternate explanation the Doctor tried to come up with.
I suppose it could always have been another traveler, and they weren't really the only ones left after all. But the Doctor seemed pretty certain that there wasn't anything else around, suggesting he had already checked for other life signs on the planet.
I suppose it could always have been another traveler, and they weren't really the only ones left after all. But the Doctor seemed pretty certain that there wasn't anything else around, suggesting he had already checked for other life signs on the planet.
Given the episode's title is "Listen" and that all of this guesswork that the thing under the blanket might be a kid, this is who I picture was under the blanket:
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8RB7UZHKI[/yt]
Yeah, but then nothing came in when he opened it. he just bumped his head.
And yet, in "The Five Doctors" the Third Doctor knows how his successor looks.
I don't think it's all that clear cut. In my personal continuity (I know, evil word) the Doctor does know about his future and the Time War to some extent. However, there's a big taboo about changing your own timeline or important events in the general timeline which even later Doctors respect. Ten even gave some explanations about what can or can't be changed and he was rather skeptical about changing his own timeline in "The Day of the Doctor" (but then, they didn't as this was how it had always played out). Later Doctors generally weren't as adamant about it as the First Doctor (who said to Barbara in "The Aztecs", "You can't change history. Not a single line of it!"), though.
With that regard, looking into your own future seems like a stupid thing to do. You can't or really shouldn't change it, yet would know how you die and stuff like that. That would be a horrible prospect, I think.
Well, it was a huge war, fought throughout time and space so it figures that there was a lot of collateral damage. The Nestenes or the Gelth might also have been involved in the war. The picture painted of the destructiveness of the war by what the pilot says in "Night of the Doctor" is rather grim.
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
I think the "Teeth and curls" remark might have been the Third's interpetation of Sarah's gestures.
Though Troughton seemed to remember events from The Three Doctors in The Five Doctors.
The Robert Holmes Masterplan.
Side-effect of being back in the company of One and Two?
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