6x05 The Rebel Flesh (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)

[Venardhi]

Perhaps the acid is important for some manufacturing reason. Or perhaps it is the remnants of some technology and they're the cleanup crew several generations later. Solar storms happen, though with that much force they would all be irradiated. Perhaps they're not on earth at all. Dr. Who is one of the few shows I can turn my brain off for. While the arc stuff and the 'mythology' needs to be consistent, these one-off adventures really only need to be internally consistent because anything beyond the immediate is unimportant and variable without changing what happens within the bubble of the episode.

 

[Cutter John]

Man I really hope they don't go with the 'Amy is jealous of Rory for trying to comfort another woman' angle. Thats like #4 on the 'Overused American sit-com cliche' list.


Yeah, I had a lot of questions about this one.

Did they ever actually say this was Earth?

Assumingg it is, since when does acid exist in large underground pools that you can just pump out like oil?

And whats with the solar storms? the refinery crew seemed pretty nonchalant about it. But if they were that common, wouldn't the solar array be a lot more sturdy?

 

[PorthosShadow]

I'm not sure if this was brought up but I'm surprised Rory didn't mention when he was made of plastic. Aside from him needing to feel needed, I thought maybe he was instinctively drawn someone who was like him for over 2000 years. Now I know he told The Doctor that those memories are like a door that opens and closes but I wonder if these people are keeping that door open, just a little.

 

[Shatnertage]

I liked it, even though I didn't understand a single word anyone said in the opening bits.

I also didn't get the pumping acid thing, but it's very possible I just didn't catch the explanation.

And I'm actually guffawing when the Eyepatch Lady shows up now.

I thought it had a real old-Who feel--the setting reminded me of Horror of Fang Rock. In general, I've gotten a strong Hinchcliffe/Holmes vibe from this season so far. It's very dark and gothicky.

My wife thinks it's getting too dark. I offered to stop DVRing it and Netflix some 5/6/7 DVDs instead. She agreed we should keep watching.

 

[Sindatur]

That was great - a proper solid DW episode that didn't rush things or have unnecessarily silly bits. Nice direction, good guest stars (Sarah Smart doing better than Marshall Lancaster, who's giving *exactly* the same performance as he did as Chris Skelton. Matt Smith seems a bit muted this week.

The acid suits with staves kind of remind me more of the Vanir in Terminus than the Sontarans, when seen in context. I like that it's about the battle for identity, rather than conquest or something.

Matt Graham has delivered a nice solid SF script (with a proper sciencey "what if" concept) albeit somewhat reminiscent of Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep/Blade Runner - not as biting and funny as LoM/A2A but way above Bonekickers or Fear Her...

Saw that cliffhanger coming light years off though.

Will Matt Smith fall victim to McIntee's First Law of Acting? I guess we'll find out next week... And, oddly, I *don't* think the ganger Doc will be anything to do with the one who died at the beginning of the season. I think it's a red herring, and that'll be resolved in some timey-wimey fashion...

I'm hoping this episode was presented to use as a Red Herring to give the Clone Theorists something to pin their theories on. It will be fabulous if the Clone isn't the way the Impossible Astronaut is resolved

I really liked this one, not an A+, but a solid B+ or A-, IMHO, and only a Part 1

 

[PorthosShadow]

I liked it, even though I didn't understand a single word anyone said in the opening bits.

So it wasn't just me and my American ears that couldn't understand what anyone was saying. Maybe I'll really have to watch it with subtitles, if I can.

And I'm actually guffawing when the Eye Patch Lady shows up now.

Yeah, her appearances are kind of like Rose throughout season 4 or The Observers in "Fringe" but cooler.

 

[DAK]

I liked the feel of this and last week's episodes. Feel suitably important without having to be part of a big arc, a bit of darkness but not depressingly so, intertwined with whimsey and fun throughout and all with an interesting concept and looking quite good to boot.

Where was the whimsy and fun part? I don't think I laughed once.

And just how many more times do we need to see the Doctor standing at the TARDIS performing a pregnancy scan on Amy? We get it, she may or may not be pregnant. Surely the Doctor must realize that constantly staring at the monitor as it switches back and forth between positive and negative isn't accomplishing anything. And just how long do we have to wait until Eyepatch Lady is explained? Midseason or proper season finale?

I agree, both of those are getting really old.

I kept getting hung up on the idea that there's an island (somewhere) with a castle that is pumping acid from somewhere to somewhere else for no apparent reason, especially when there's a big nasty Space Storm coming. WTF?

Yeah, I didn't get the purpose of the place either. It seemed pretty primitive for a society advanced enough to create life.

 

[O'Dib]

Speaking of which, the Doctor Ganger did look quite like Odo.

I thought the 'gangers in general did, actually.

So they all look the same to you, huh?

Did they ever actually say this was Earth?

Nope, but there was an establishing shot of Earth at the beginning. And they did say it's the 22nd century, at which time we're not yet spacefaring in Who, I don't think..

 

[Cutter John]

Nope, but there was an establishing shot of Earth at the beginning. And they did say it's the 22nd century, at which time we're not yet spacefaring in Who, I don't think..

Speaking of which, shouldn't the Daleks be invading sometime soon?

 

[PorthosShadow]

Nope, but there was an establishing shot of Earth at the beginning. And they did say it's the 22nd century, at which time we're not yet spacefaring in Who, I don't think..

Speaking of which, shouldn't the Daleks be invading sometime soon?

I know it hasn't been clearly established but I thought the Time Lock effectively removed every Time Lord and Dalek from time and space, minus those that fell through the cracks (no pun intended).

 

[SonicRanger]

Did they ever actually say this was Earth?

Nope, but there was an establishing shot of Earth at the beginning. And they did say it's the 22nd century, at which time we're not yet spacefaring in Who, I don't think..

I would have been less "WTF?" the whole time if, instead of 22nd century Earth, this was, say, some colony of the First Great and Bountiful Human Empire.

 

[Cutter John]

Had to lol at the post-credits shot. Man the Doctor needs to teach those kids to pick up after themselves. No wonder he wanted to dump them somewhere so he could have some alone time.

I would have been less "WTF?" the whole time if, instead of 22nd century Earth, this was, say, some colony of the First Great and Bountiful Human Empire.

^ This.

And I guess you're right Porthos. I still haven't wrapped my brain around the Time War thing.

I'm still very curious to find out where the Doctor knows the flesh from. And I'm really hoping they don't end up resorting to a 'kill them all' type of solution. Its not the Gangers fault this happened.

 

[O'Dib]

Btw how much you wanna bet Amy gets gangered and it's the fleshy one that locks in as "preggers"?

 

[Australis]

^ she scanned preggers long before this ep.

I'm not sure if this was brought up but I'm surprised Rory didn't mention when he was made of plastic. Aside from him needing to feel needed, I thought maybe he was instinctively drawn someone who was like him for over 2000 years. Now I know he told The Doctor that those memories are like a door that opens and closes but I wonder if these people are keeping that door open, just a little.

Rory. In Pirate ep. Bleeding and drowning. Not plastic. Was reset when universe rebooted.

Had to lol at the post-credits shot. Man the Doctor needs to teach those kids to pick up after themselves. No wonder he wanted to dump them somewhere so he could have some alone time.

Didn't see it please tell me more. ETA: yeah see what you mean. Hey, what was the name of the band/song playing there, anyone know? Might be something I'd like.

And I guess you're right Porthos. I still haven't wrapped my brain around the Time War thing.

It's a difficult concept, I admit. There'a bit in one Discworld book (Soul Music, I think) where the Watch notice a shop a shop that wasn't there yesterday but has been there forever. it's a bit like that.

Or another way. Until the events of 'Tooth and Claw', Torchwood did not exist... and then it had for over a hundred years by the time of 'Doomsday'.

It's one of those things.

 

[PorthosShadow]

I'm not sure if this was brought up but I'm surprised Rory didn't mention when he was made of plastic. Aside from him needing to feel needed, I thought maybe he was instinctively drawn someone who was like him for over 2000 years. Now I know he told The Doctor that those memories are like a door that opens and closes but I wonder if these people are keeping that door open, just a little.

Rory. In Pirate ep. Bleeding and drowning. Not plastic. Was reset when universe rebooted.

Yes, I know that but again he told The Doctor that he still remembers those 2000 years as an Auton from to time. I believe The Doctor also said "Of course not, you don't forget something like that" so yes I am aware he is not plastic any longer but apparently he hasn't forgotten about it.

 

[Psion]

Did they ever actually say this was Earth?

Nope, but there was an establishing shot of Earth at the beginning. And they did say it's the 22nd century, at which time we're not yet spacefaring in Who, I don't think..

I would have been less "WTF?" the whole time if, instead of 22nd century Earth, this was, say, some colony of the First Great and Bountiful Human Empire.

Don't forget, according to "The Beast Below", solar flares "roast the Earth" in the 29th century. So this is clearly a precursor effect. A nice bit of continuity with the episode that gave us "Spaceship Britain".

 

[davejames]

Wow, what the hell was that? I don't mind the occasional, generic episode now and then (and am usually never as hard on this show as others here)... but THIS was the dullest and most tedious thing I've seen in a long while. Not only were the characters and central premise not remotely compelling, but figuring out all the rules and keeping track of who was who was nearly impossible (and not in a cool, suspenseful kind of way either).

The whole thing was just way too messy and random, and for the first time I frankly had a hard time caring about ANYTHING that was happening.

Unfortunately we have to sit through a whole other hour of this next week too. Ugh.

 

[Plain Simple]

I voted for the middle ranking. The episode was entertaining for a bit, but seemed to drag out quite long. This might be one of those stories that's not interesting enough to fill a two-parter. Some observations/comments in no particular order:

-As with so many of you my initial reaction to the Flesh was to see it as a solution to the killing in The Impossible Astronaut, but I expected it to be more subtle. I thought the Doctor's clone would not be seen or hinted at anymore beyond the first Doctor-Flesh touching and then pop up later in the season. When it became obvious (and oh! did it become obvious fast) that the Doctorganger was going to show up in this episode, I started to think it less likely that this would be the Astronaut solution.

-The cliffhanger was too obvious too soon in the episode, complete with final line of dialogue.

-Rory seems to be behaving oddly. It could be (a) because he has so little to do usually that anything he does seems out of the ordinary or (b) an in-story reason. I got the vibe that he might somehow be under the influence of the flesh, beyond just caring for the gangers. For example, in the scene where the gangers and `originals' meet, just before lady what's-her-name comes in and shoots the ganger, there is an odd moment where the ganger Rory's so protective of (geez, I really connected with those characters... what was her name again?) grabs his hand in a weird way and Rory pulls back and looks surprised. I think there was a similar moment earlier in the episode. Just confused acting or relevant to the story?

-Speaking of what's-her-name shooting boss lady. Sigh. Why do people keep writing stories where the drama is created only because some people are acting stupidly? What did she have to gain by shooting the ganger? Either she really sees them as a threat and she should take them out all at once, or, preferably, she calms down and tries to figure out a solution. This is just lazy writing, creating problems just because the characters behave in a dumb way.

-On the plus side, even though I can't think of a sci fi show of the top of my head that hasn't touched on the topic of having clones/doppelgangers/the same characters from past or future/or any other variation on the same theme, still I think the bulk of the episode tackled it in an entertaining way. Nothing special, but entertaining. Up until the point where things artificially escalated into war!!!111!! I fear to be bored next week, please show, prove me wrong.

Is it just me, or is this season missing some of the energy, some of the frizzle and sizzle of last year? Last year got me into the show, I can't help but thinking that if I would've tuned in this year as a one-off viewer, I probably wouldn't have come back for more. Don't get me wrong, I'm still entertained by the show, but that undefinable something that gave the show its edge (and pushed me over the edge into becoming a regular viewer) last year, seems to be missing for me now.

ETA: The acting of some of the extras, especially that ganger Rory's going after (was it Jennifer?), was a bit jarring as well. A bit too much whining, especially in the "photo of the little girl" scene.

 

[Peter the Younger]

There was something very off about this episode for me. At first I thought it was the uneven pacing, but now I'm beginning to feel like the characterizations were off somehow, with everyone behaving according to the dictates of the plot. The actions of Rory and the crew boss, especially, did not ring true at all for me.

Of course it didn't help that, when wearing their "monster" makeup, the actors changed their line delivery from "confused and sympathetic" to "Voldemort!"

 

[Skywalker]

It was okay, but not great. I don't really see why this story needs to be a two-parter. And it was obvious we were going to get a Doctor ganger the moment he put his hand in the Flesh.

It was great to see Rory get to be at the forefront for a change, though.