‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

[Kor]

I think Gal Gadot looks great as Wonder Woman. She obviously hit the gym a lot for this part.

Also, it's an old myth that being more muscular makes you "musclebound" and less flexible and agile. That was debunked pretty well back when Jack LaLanne was at his most muscular in his bodybuilding days of the 1940s and 1950s and doing handstand pushups and demonstrating the flexibility of a gymnast.

Unless you are at an unnatural level of muscularity due to steroids, growth hormone, insulin abuse, etc, then there's really nothing to worry about there.

Kor

 

[Garak]

Wonder Woman should look like a fit, curvy woman. She shouldn't be too muscular.
Gadot is too skinny.
Carter was pretty much perfect, except for her bony ass.

I bet you're a hit with the ladies.

 

[ancient]

Despite my post.. I actually agree.. I personally find super muscular-looking WW drawings to not be as appealing to me as where she simply simply looks thin and athletic. I guess I'm so used to all the fact that in the last twenty years she was drawn as being much stronger.

But that's just what I've been saying -- more big and bulgey does not equal stronger. Strength training and bulk training are two entirely different regimens with different goals; people who train for strength will not be as bulky as people who bulk up their muscles to pose onstage. Comic books for the past few decades have chosen the wrong model for depicting powerful characters, going more for fetishistic exaggeration than realistic portrayals of athleticism.

I don't think it's really fetishistic, it's visual shorthand. Superman could of course be a twiggy man & still bench-press a planet, but the visual cue of superman is supposed to imply incredible strength - so he's super muscular. Plus I think your general audience would have trouble accepting the fantasy concept of super-strength without some sort of grounding in actual real life strength. It's the same reason Orcs don't look like accountants. There is also the self insert escapism that every superhero is, but even without that they keep the muscles on power players. (ex. super ugly or evil characters like Darksied, Doomsday)

^^
It's also worth noting that Gal Gadot served in the military and is into sports and keeping fit.
She's in way better shape than most guys complaining she's not "strong" enough.

I don't think that critics are saying she's not strong & the strength of the critics isn't really relevant.

Despite my post.. I actually agree.. I personally find super muscular-looking WW drawings to not be as appealing to me as where she simply simply looks thin and athletic. I guess I'm so used to all the fact that in the last twenty years she was drawn as being much stronger.

But that's just what I've been saying -- more big and bulgey does not equal stronger. Strength training and bulk training are two entirely different regimens with different goals; people who train for strength will not be as bulky as people who bulk up their muscles to pose onstage. Comic books for the past few decades have chosen the wrong model for depicting powerful characters, going more for fetishistic exaggeration than realistic portrayals of athleticism.

It's worth keeping in mind that fighters like WW, and Batman are supposed to be able to fight and move. If you get real big and bulky you can barely even move, so if the characters are going to doing a lot of running and moving when they fight then they can't be to big. Not to mention WW most likely rode horses in Themyscira, and I'm pretty sure you can't be huge and ride horses. I guess you could be bigger if you rode nothing but huge draft horses, but that seems unlikely in this case.

Knights used to wear full iron suits of armor w/ shield, lance, etc. Now maybe a woman warrior would go for the speed & maneuverability, but I assure you that muscular people can definitely ride a horse just fine & their stamina is just as good as a lean fighter.

I think Gal Gadot looks great as Wonder Woman. She obviously hit the gym a lot for this part.

Also, it's an old myth that being more muscular makes you "musclebound" and less flexible and agile. That was debunked pretty well back when Jack LaLanne was at his most muscular in his bodybuilding days of the 1940s and 1950s and doing handstand pushups and demonstrating the flexibility of a gymnast.

Unless you are at an unnatural level of muscularity due to steroids, growth hormone, insulin abuse, etc, then there's really nothing to worry about there.

Kor

Exactly, it's only people who are muscular through unnatural means who end up like a muscle statue.

 

[Mr Light]

I prefer a slim Wonder Woman like in the Justice League cartoon, personally.

 

[Christopher]

I don't think it's really fetishistic, it's visual shorthand.

No, the kind of male and female bodily ideals that overtook comics starting in the Liefeld-dominated '90s are rooted in adolescent male fantasies of male power and female sexuality. Male characters became insanely overmuscled, and female characters got huge breasts, disproportionately long legs, and untenably narrow waists, as well as a tendency to pose in anatomically impossible ways. Even male characters who were meant to be light, agile, and athletic, like Spider-Man and the Flash, ended up being drawn with bulky, bulgy musculatures. It's a set of design sensibilities that comics art has only recently begun to leave behind in favor of more realistic body types.

Superman could of course be a twiggy man & still bench-press a planet, but the visual cue of superman is supposed to imply incredible strength - so he's super muscular.

Again, though, supermuscular is not superstrong. That is a myth. In older comics, from the '40s through the '70s or '80s, Superman and Captain America and the like were not rendered with absurdly bulgy bodybuilder physiques. They were modeled on actual strongmen and athletes, people whose muscles were trained for use rather than posing. It was probably the fame of bodybuilders like Schwarzenegger and Ferrigno in the '70s and after that led to the perception that you have to look like them in order to be strong. But that's confusing something meant for show with something meant for function. Before they came along, people understood that you can be strong with a more normal build.

Plus I think your general audience would have trouble accepting the fantasy concept of super-strength without some sort of grounding in actual real life strength.

Which is exactly my point. Actual real-life strength. Which does not look like a steroid-pumped bodybuilder fantasy image of strength. Strength that looks like this Steve Rogers, not like this one.

 

[ancient]

I don't think it's really fetishistic, it's visual shorthand.

No, the kind of male and female bodily ideals that overtook comics starting in the Liefeld-dominated '90s are rooted in adolescent male fantasies of male power and female sexuality. Male characters became insanely overmuscled, and female characters got huge breasts, disproportionately long legs, and untenably narrow waists, as well as a tendency to pose in anatomically impossible ways. Even male characters who were meant to be light, agile, and athletic, like Spider-Man and the Flash, ended up being drawn with bulky, bulgy musculatures. It's a set of design sensibilities that comics art has only recently begun to leave behind in favor of more realistic body types.

Oh you're talking about the weird 90s comics. Those certainly looked strange. They were from the mass-produced era, when Spiderman had like 4 books running at once, quantity over quality, etc.
If their goal was to entice teenage me from the 90s, I must have missed it. I always thought they were just super rushed. Now if I had had a saliva fetish, then I would've been all set.

Superman could of course be a twiggy man & still bench-press a planet, but the visual cue of superman is supposed to imply incredible strength - so he's super muscular.

Again, though, supermuscular is not superstrong. That is a myth. In older comics, from the '40s through the '70s or '80s, Superman and Captain America and the like were not rendered with absurdly bulgy bodybuilder physiques. They were modeled on actual strongmen and athletes, people whose muscles were trained for use rather than posing. It was probably the fame of bodybuilders like Schwarzenegger and Ferrigno in the '70s and after that led to the perception that you have to look like them in order to be strong. But that's confusing something meant for show with something meant for function. Before they came along, people understood that you can be strong with a more normal build.

Yes, I know, you're right - Arnold has weak joints. But I'm just talking about no muscles vs muscles. Which variation of muscles you want to show is personal taste, I'm fine with an Arnold or an athlete.

Plus I think your general audience would have trouble accepting the fantasy concept of super-strength without some sort of grounding in actual real life strength.

Which is exactly my point. Actual real-life strength. Which does not look like a steroid-pumped bodybuilder fantasy image of strength. Strength that looks like this Steve Rogers, not like this one.

Well obviously with that extreme example. Liefeld is just bad at drawing.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Which is exactly my point. Actual real-life strength. Which does not look like a steroid-pumped bodybuilder fantasy image of strength. Strength that looks like this Steve Rogers, not like this one.

I don't know, that Steve Rogers still has quite the physique. It seems male actors don't get the same pass that is given to the women. Is it really more "realistic" or is it that women fall under the male gaze and a bit of muscle turns off some guys?

Personally, I think GG is OK but it wouldn't hurt to be a little more buff.

Here's Jessica Biel from Blade Trinity for example:

Gal Godot does a good job selling the character with her posing and such though from what I've seen; she looks good in the costume.

 

[Timby]

Personally, I think GG is OK but it wouldn't hurt to be a little more buff.

She served in the IDF, which is not particularly known for training its soldiers in being nice to people. I'm pretty sure she could kick the living shit out of anyone posting in this thread, myself included, without breaking a sweat.

 

[Christopher]

I think it's good to remind people that there's more than one body type that qualifies as strong and athletic. The problem isn't Gal Gadot's narrow arms, it's other people's narrow expectations.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Personally, I think GG is OK but it wouldn't hurt to be a little more buff.

She served in the IDF, which is not particularly known for training its soldiers in being nice to people. I'm pretty sure she could kick the living shit out of anyone posting in this thread, myself included, without breaking a sweat.

Every single Israeli citizen serves in the IDF, mandatory at 18.

 

[Kor]

It was probably the fame of bodybuilders like Schwarzenegger and Ferrigno in the '70s and after that led to the perception that you have to look like them in order to be strong. But that's confusing something meant for show with something meant for function. Before they came along, people understood that you can be strong with a more normal build.

Schwarzenegger could dead lift more than 700 pounds and bench press 440 to 500 pounds in his prime. Ferrigno could do even more. Sure, the purpose of the muscles was visual display (and steroids were in common use by then, though at that time they were still legal and used under a physician's supervision)... but that doesn't mean the muscles weren't actually strong.

Kor

 

[Christopher]

^Sure, but they were specialized for weightlifting specifically. That's not the same as being an all-around athlete. The point is not that bulging muscles aren't strong, it's that strong muscles don't have to be bulging. There are many different types of athlete who have many different body types. The problem is that comics latch onto just one body type as "the" ideal, and that's a false standard.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I was of the "she's too skinny" camp back when, but I think she looks fine in costume.

 

[theenglish]

I was of the "she's too skinny" camp back when, but I think she looks fine in costume.

I'm surprised by the anti-Gadot reaction considering how purists are always complaining about the changes the movie makes. In costume she really looks like the classic comic book Wonder Woman.

 

[dahj]

^^
BvS gets an unusual amount of "outrage" for almost anything.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Here's Jessica Biel from Blade Trinity for example:

Much more relevant to WW, here's Jessica Biel elsewhere:

As for Evans, he's obviously been having a lot of trouble keeping muscle on.
And no one ever should (or could) look like the Liefeld Cap.

 

[Christopher]

^^
BvS gets an unusual amount of "outrage" for almost anything.

I don't find it unusual. Fandom has been overly negative toward movies they haven't seen yet for as long as I can remember. And bodyshaming prominent women is nothing new either, unfortunately.

 

[dahj]

^^
There's always that small loud part, but what I was referring to is the self styled "geeky comic book movie internetsphere" whose immediate reaction to any information is almost always painted negative.

Like there's even outrage for the recent fake Lex interview:
http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-batman-v-superman-marketing-needs-to-stop-pretendin-1748574866

The amount of negative articles leveled at BvS is hugely disproportionate to the disposition of the DC fandom (and general audiences), which is mostly positive.

 

[ancient]

^^
BvS gets an unusual amount of "outrage" for almost anything.

I don't find it unusual. Fandom has been overly negative toward movies they haven't seen yet for as long as I can remember.

I actually disagree, the negativity about BvS seems pretty restrained to me. Actually, it's been unusually positive aside from the Lex Luthor choice. The only real fear I have is the character overload that usually happens when the studio starts mandating things.

And bodyshaming prominent women is nothing new either, unfortunately.

That's an odd thing to say. This sounds like something high-school kids do to nerds. I don't think it's accurate to imply the BvS actors could actually be made to feel shame by random internet fans discussing their ideal hero appearance.

 

[Timby]

And bodyshaming prominent women is nothing new either, unfortunately.

That's an odd thing to say. This sounds like something high-school kids do to nerds.

Clearly you've missed the Internet's outrage over the casting of the upcoming Ghostbusters remake.