Star Trek: Axanar

[YJAGG]

They do itemize a budget on the "Axanar" kickstarter page, but so what? There is NO accountability for the money. None.

Are you advocating that Axanar should or will just spend the Kickstarter money differently from how they indicated they would because, well, they wouldn't really be policed by any mechanism?

And aside from such behind-the-scenes financing folderol, what did you think of the production?

if they are set up as 501c3 (non-profit) they have to comply with the donor intent - if you give specified funds to a charity the funds must be used as specified however un specified funds may be used as needed (operating over head).

Unless they state the monies received will be used solely for X they are free to use however they want.

But traveling to cons would be valid business expense as the tens of thousands of dollars the company I work for spent on trade shows last year.

 

[BillJ]

Dear men on the internet: B**ch, wh*r*, and sl*t, are as offensive and inappropriate as the words n*gg*r, sp**k, or k*k*. The first is just a gross comparison of a woman to another animal based on a strength of character that is usually applauded in men , the other two are judgmental of her sexual desires and proclivities. Both are historically degrading, dismissive, and, at times, a prelude to murder (scarlet letters, honor killings, etc.). You may not feel that way, but you'd be wrong. I'm not going to argue whether any of these words are appropriate in a Star Trek property. I *am* going to let you know that if you personally consider any one of them too offensive to utter casually then they all are.

I don't need a history lesson here. I understand what the words mean. I also understand that sometimes you use certain types of language to get a point across.

I'm a grown up and can make my own value judgements on whether or not something is appropriate. Thanks.

 

[JT Perfecthair]

Interesting, I didn't hear it as though she was quoting the exact phrase the Klingons had used, but rather using it as an expression that they called her all sorts of things over the comms during or after the fight.

 

[Mark 2000]

I don't need a history lesson here. I understand what the words mean. I also understand that sometimes you use certain types of language to get a point across.

I'm a grown up and can make my own value judgements on whether or not something is appropriate. Thanks.

If, at any point, I believed anything you just said I would have kept my mouth shut. The very fact that you don't find these words to be equivalent to the point that you will type some out fully and not others shows an extreme ignorance of history.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Dear men on the internet: B**ch, wh*r*, and sl*t, are as offensive and inappropriate as the words n*gg*r, sp**k, or k*k*. The first is just a gross comparison of a woman to another animal based on a strength of character that is usually applauded in men , the other two are judgmental of her sexual desires and proclivities. Both are historically degrading, dismissive, and, at times, a prelude to murder (scarlet letters, honor killings, etc.). You may not feel that way, but you'd be wrong. I'm not going to argue whether any of these words are appropriate in a Star Trek property. I *am* going to let you know that if you personally consider any one of them too offensive to utter casually then they all are.

That's the spirit! Ah, it's like curling up in a warm blanket all over again.

I didn't realize nagger, spork and koka were offensive. Batch, where and slot too?? Or is it birch, wharf and slat?

Damn! Learn something new every day!

 

[Tosk]

Dear men on the internet: B**ch, wh*r*, and sl*t, are as offensive and inappropriate as the words n*gg*r, sp**k, or k*k*.

To you. Maybe to others. Not to some.

I *am* going to let you know that if you personally consider any one of them too offensive to utter casually then they all are.

Under what authority?

Just because someone says they are offended, that's not some magic button that means the words/activities in question must cease.

 

[Mark 2000]

Just because someone says they are offended, that's not some magic button that means the words/activities in question must cease.

And yet you probably won't spell the n-word out either. I already made it clear that these words are equivalent. They are both used to demean a subset of people who have been historically maligned. They are both used to dehumanize their targets. They are both historically used along with episodes of physical abuse and murder. Several sections of the bible insist a woman be stoned for being a "wh*r*". Both are unequivocally found offensive by the groups they are used against. How are they NOT alike? Please explain beyond "I don't think they are therefore they aren't". Why does it bother you so much to lose those words? How would your life or the entertainment you watch diminish because you were socially pressured not to use them?

 

[lennier1]

Dear men on the internet: B**ch, wh*r*, and sl*t, are as offensive and inappropriate as the words n*gg*r, sp**k, or k*k*. The first is just a gross comparison of a woman to another animal based on a strength of character that is usually applauded in men , the other two are judgmental of her sexual desires and proclivities. Both are historically degrading, dismissive, and, at times, a prelude to murder (scarlet letters, honor killings, etc.). You may not feel that way, but you'd be wrong. I'm not going to argue whether any of these words are appropriate in a Star Trek property. I *am* going to let you know that if you personally consider any one of them too offensive to utter casually then they all are.

Step off your soap box for a second and actually consider the CONTEXT! She dealt enough heavy damage to an enemy to earn herself a name among them that reflected their hatred and since we're talking about Klingons it certainly won't be "Big Fluffy Teddy Bear Of The Federation"!!!

 

[BigJake]

It's kind of depressing to see that people need it explained to them that stories sometimes use cursing as an organic part of the characters and setting.

 

[Tosk]

And yet you probably won't spell the n-word out either.

I would if I had reason to. And say it too, if I'm reporting rather than trying to incite. The phrase "the n-word" is just as bad as the word itself, it's just passed around as though it is somehow less damaging.

I already made it clear that these words are equivalent.

You made it clear that it is your opinion on the matter. I just disagree that they are equal in significance.

Why does it bother you so much to lose those words? How would your life or the entertainment you watch diminish because you were socially pressured not to use them?

It wouldn't bother me particularly, and it wouldn't affect my life if they were erased from public consciousness. You are misintepreting my stance. I am not saying they should be used all the time in every situation with no mind for who they are aimed at, I'm simply saying that some people feel differently about their use than you do. You're presenting this as an absolute "These words are equal in every measure!" and I'm simply disagreeing. It's nothing personal.

 

[Ithekro]

Context is everything. Historical context (even in a fictional universe) is where one uses what words were used because they were used. Not because it is edgy, not because it is vulgar, and not to sound uncouth. They are there because that is what was said or how things were said.

In the context of the Four Years War, imagine a human female, who the Klingon would usually see as weak and fragile on top of already being a weakling human, who is decimating some of their best starships. Likely in a brutal fashion a Sonya seems likely to be one of those combat captains that will push due to anger and loss after the first two years of the war caused so much destruction to Starfleet. For a person like that, I don't think the Klingons would grant her a title of honor, but instead a vile title of disrespect, probably in the human language to increase the insult. However, that they did so also shows that she has earned their anger and venom...and made them respect her as someone who will kill Klingon on the battlefield. That they used such a title as "Queen Bitch Whore of the Federation" means that she was very good at killing Klingons, and it embarrassed the hell out of the Klingons to be bested by not just a weakling human, but a weakling human female.

Garth's title is more respectful, if not all that glorious. Perhaps because they know he's a planner and one that has killed the most Klingon in the war. Some enemies only need a simple title to earn fear and respect. Others need long titles to show hatred and fear and a lack of respect (while also showing respect because they fear that person).

Remember Kirk was also called many things by the Klingons. They hated him, but he was a worthy opponent. He also had a tendency to cheat and lie to the Klingons, which earned him a lot of disrespect and bile. Kirk is a name a Klingon might spit after saying.

 

[beamMe]

Just because someone says they are offended, that's not some magic button that means the words/activities in question must cease.

And yet you probably won't spell the n-word out either. I already made it clear that these words are equivalent. They are both used to demean a subset of people who have been historically maligned. They are both used to dehumanize their targets. They are both historically used along with episodes of physical abuse and murder. Several sections of the bible insist a woman be stoned for being a "wh*r*". Both are unequivocally found offensive by the groups they are used against. How are they NOT alike? Please explain beyond "I don't think they are therefore they aren't". Why does it bother you so much to lose those words? How would your life or the entertainment you watch diminish because you were socially pressured not to use them?

Who the fuck are you to tell anyone what words they are allowed to use?
Since context is everything, I think it is really really stupid to use "n-word" instead of the actual word "nigger"; and it makes you look like you escaped from Pleasantville when you can't even type out "whore".

 

[BillJ]

It's kind of depressing to see that people need it explained to them that stories sometimes use cursing as an organic part of the characters and setting.

+1

I think Hell just froze over, BigJake!

 

[BillJ]

I don't need a history lesson here. I understand what the words mean. I also understand that sometimes you use certain types of language to get a point across.

I'm a grown up and can make my own value judgements on whether or not something is appropriate. Thanks.

If, at any point, I believed anything you just said I would have kept my mouth shut. The very fact that you don't find these words to be equivalent to the point that you will type some out fully and not others shows an extreme ignorance of history.

All I can think of as a response is this:

Q: If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross, but it's not for the timid.

If you can't make the realization that language, like actions, can add to a story then you should probably go hide in a box and cover your eyes and ears. Because stories use derogatory language and actions like rape and murder every single day.

 

[localyokel]

Are they not planning on other KS campaigns? Why did they set the goal at $100,000 when they need $650,000? This whole process is a bit confusing..

Probably because the way Kickstarter works, if you don't make you listed goal, you don't get any money (still owe some fees); and everyone gets their pledge automatically refunded. And while I really do hope the project succeeds and gets made; thinking that somehow multiple KS campaigns will work seems a bit risky as unless you get the same people to donate to multiple campaigns, at some point, you'll get a KS that will not get funded; and at that point, you either find a different source of funding to finish, or you're stuck with the pre-production work completed, but no way to actually film/edit/complete the full project.

I can only believe they HOPED to get the $650K with the one project and put a resounding "We thought we'd need multiple campaigns, but the fans came through!..." -- but it doesn't look like that's going to happen unless donations really ramp up in the final week; so who knows.

Again, I really hope they make it and are able to produce the film; but they have a lot of funds left to raise to make their stated budget goals.

Thanks for the reply,,

I hope they are able to produce it as well. From what I've seen so far $650,000 is a bargain! The tone seems to be that they won't raise it though. This makes me a little adverse to pledging more money that would potentially be lost.

 

[Mark 2000]

It's hilarious how forum members can all get on the same bandwagon of logic. Just the same strawman over and over again: "You don't understand, it's the context". That's not the conversation. I specifically said I wasn't arguing the appropriateness of words, specifically in this movie. I was arguing the equality of words, especially in the case of people being called "out of line" for comparing wh*r* with n*gg*r. But if you didn't get that initially you won't get it now.

"Who the blankity-blank are you to tell people what words to use?" Not arguing that either, but if that's the argument you want to have go ahead and have it with yourself.

The only person who's actually on point is Tosk, but he refuses to answer the simple question of why racial and misogynistic slurs are not equal. He just says he disagrees. Ok, that conversation is done too. I'm not going to do this for a second day. I said what I said mostly in support of those with sense enough to address this topic, not to actually engage with people I know won't get it. Pat yourselves on the back, guys. I'm out.

 

[137th Gebirg]

M'kay. Bye, then.

 

[BigJake]

It's kind of depressing to see that people need it explained to them that stories sometimes use cursing as an organic part of the characters and setting.

+1

I think Hell just froze over, BigJake!

I think when we get to our tenth occasion of agreeing with each other we should each treat ourselves to a cupcake or a Happy Meal or something.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It's kind of depressing to see that people need it explained to them that stories sometimes use cursing as an organic part of the characters and setting.

+1

I think Hell just froze over, BigJake!

I think when we get to our tenth occasion of agreeing with each other we should each treat ourselves to a cupcake or a Happy Meal or something.

Sounds like those loyalty cards, when they punch off a whole row with the heart-shaped hole-puncher and you get a free cupcake or whatever.

 

[Jedi_Master]

It's kind of depressing to see that people need it explained to them that stories sometimes use cursing as an organic part of the characters and setting.

+1

I think Hell just froze over, BigJake!

I think when we get to our tenth occasion of agreeing with each other we should each treat ourselves to a cupcake or a Happy Meal or something.

Or you two could be the reason the universe collapses on itself...