Star Trek: Axanar

[dswynne1]

Still, perhaps it would be best if the profanity is eliminated altogether? One poster complained that he couldn't show PtA because of the language, while another was offended because of the invectives leveled at the sole female character. So, while I am a supporter of this film, let's not needlessly alienate some within our audience for the sake or artistic license. Okay?

What about people who are offended by violence? Should we also extract all the violence from every fan film/feature film/TV series as well, on the off chance someone may be offended? Maybe we should acknowledge that there are simply some things that aren't made for children to view? Though I have a hard time wrapping my mind around a couple of swear words being worse than watching cities being devastated and the implication of people dying by the thousands/millions.

At the rate we're going in this thread, the only thing suitable for airing would be the color bar test pattern that stations use to run in the wee hours of the morning after stations went off the air.

The funny thing is that having "gross violence" is a lot more tolerable than the use of profanity and sexuality as a vehicle to tell a story. Go figure...

But as to what you have said: using a straw man argument is misuse here, since TOS had had violence depicted on screen, including battles where characters died...on screen. But I do understand what you are saying. A storyteller should be giving the right to be artistic, after all, including the use of vulgarity. All I am saying is that if having less profanity does not detract from the story, why use it to begin with? And since TOS had very little vulgarity, you can easily say that in the context of the program, we are going to be creative about conveying the same message without the use of vulgarity. I personally have no problems with using profanity, and I am sure that the actress had no problem being referred to in a derogatory way while in character. All I am saying is that PtA should have an audience that caters to as many people as possible, and not get needlessly hung up on artistic licensing.

 

[dswynne1]

Fact of the matter is that we ALL have issues with how fan productions have depicted the TOS era through a modern lens. For example, I wasn't too keen about having Peter Kirk being depicted as a gay man in Phase II's "Blood and Fire", or seeing the character have a rather graphic make-out session. However, having gotten over the shock, I accepted the idea that this was Phase II's production, and it was their story to tell. And while all fan productions are non-canon (including books, comic, etc.), I consider the aforementioned episode as a legitimate vehicle to express an important topic. Thus, in the end, I got over it. Since then, Peter Kirk being depicted as a gay man doesn't bother me anymore. Same with Captain Sonya Alexander being called inappropriate names. Obviously, the Klingons hate humans, and would use propaganda in their war effort, including "slut-shamming" the enemy's female commanders. We forget that in World War II, it was common for the Axis Powers to spread simple leaflets of cartoon drawings of the milkman attempting to get with an away GI's wife/girlfriend/fiancee. "Look what your women are doing while you are fighting US!" That sort of thing. So, I take the insults towards Alexander as nothing more that propaganda, which is is why she found it amusing that the Klingons would have to stoop so low, even as she is kicking their collective a** in battle.

Still, perhaps it would be best if the profanity is eliminated altogether? One poster complained that he couldn't show PtA because of the language, while another was offended because of the invectives leveled at the sole female character. So, while I am a supporter of this film, let's not needlessly alienate some within our audience for the sake or artistic license. Okay?

The word you were trying to write is "ass" or "arse" and not "a**".

And the words I would like to use to describe a person who cares about how I write censored expletives, out of respect for this board (and those who frequent it) is "get bent". Is that comprehensible to you?

 

[Deckerd]

I thought it was a well done production. I'm not that bothered that its focus was narrow because it's an introduction to a specific thing. My biggest quibble is was Terra supposed to be Earth? Because it's called Earth.

 

[beamMe]

I thought it was a well done production. I'm not that bothered that its focus was narrow because it's an introduction to a specific thing. My biggest quibble is was Terra supposed to be Earth? Because it's called Earth.

Earth/Terra - it's the same word.

And the words I would like to use to describe a person who cares about how I write censored expletives, out of respect for this board (and those who frequent it) is "get bent". Is that comprehensible to you?

Actually, I think you should use an "are" here:

"And the words I would like to use to describe a person who cares about how I write censored expletives, out of respect for this board (and those who frequent it) are "get bent".

 

[skree]

Anyone here good at the Klingon language (or at least passable) - could spell out in Klingon (using Marc Oakrand Klingon dictionary and Phrase book) what Admiral Rameriz is saying in Klingon "The strategy of least respect" thing as well as Sam Travis saying about the Klingon tactic called the "devourer" . please

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I thought it was a well done production. I'm not that bothered that its focus was narrow because it's an introduction to a specific thing. My biggest quibble is was Terra supposed to be Earth? Because it's called Earth.

Earth/Terra - it's the same word.

I also think using Terra instead of Earth may be something from the 80s novels which this film takes after.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I have a few thoughts about "Prelude," which I might write a longer post on. First reaction, very well-done production with some fairly good acting. Only one performance I felt was bland. However, I want to add my two credits on "Queen Bitch Whore" that Kate Vernon's character is saddled with.

My offense to the term isn't that it isn't Klingon. It's to the exact words. Why is it that when we see a capable, strong woman in any fiction, someone who opposes her must use those words — "bitch," "whore", "queen" (usually with the modifier of "ice")?

I'm tired of seeing these words used to describe any woman who can hold her own.

The use of the term to describe Sonya was cliched and hackneyed. It would've been really interesting and unexpected had the Klingons hated Garth while admiring Sonya as a worthy opponent. That they liked her warrior's fire.

 

[beamMe]

I thought it was a well done production. I'm not that bothered that its focus was narrow because it's an introduction to a specific thing. My biggest quibble is was Terra supposed to be Earth? Because it's called Earth.

Earth/Terra - it's the same word.

I also think using Terra instead of Earth may be something from the 80s novels which this film takes after.

Quite possible.
I always think it sounds nice when aliens in sci-fi (not just in Star Trek) call our planet by its Latin name.

 

[beamMe]

I have a few thoughts about "Prelude," which I might write a longer post on. First reaction, very well-done production with some fairly good acting. Only one performance I felt was bland. However, I want to add my two credits on "Queen Bitch Whore" that Kate Vernon's character is saddled with.

My offense to the term isn't that it isn't Klingon. It's to the exact words. Why is it that when we see a capable, strong woman in any fiction, someone who opposes her must use those words — "bitch," "whore", "queen" (usually with the modifier of "ice")?

I'm tired of seeing these words used to describe any woman who can hold her own.

The use of the term to describe Sonya was cliched and hackneyed. It would've been really interesting and unexpected had the Klingons hated Garth while admiring Sonya as a worthy opponent. That they liked her warrior's fire.

It's not that uncommon that male characters are referred to as "goddamned motherfucker", "you lucky son of a bitch" - and so on and so forth - in an somewhat admiring fashion.
I suppose this is the same case here with Vernon's character.

 

[Noname Given]

I have a few thoughts about "Prelude," which I might write a longer post on. First reaction, very well-done production with some fairly good acting. Only one performance I felt was bland. However, I want to add my two credits on "Queen Bitch Whore" that Kate Vernon's character is saddled with.

My offense to the term isn't that it isn't Klingon. It's to the exact words. Why is it that when we see a capable, strong woman in any fiction, someone who opposes her must use those words — "bitch," "whore", "queen" (usually with the modifier of "ice")?

I'm tired of seeing these words used to describe any woman who can hold her own.

The use of the term to describe Sonya was cliched and hackneyed. It would've been really interesting and unexpected had the Klingons hated Garth while admiring Sonya as a worthy opponent. That they liked her warrior's fire.

Seriously, Why? Remember, the production is about a history of a war where THOUSANDS died on both sides, and emotions were high on both sides. I have a feeling some people who are honestly oversensitive about this think the production staff are somehow doing a 'dig' at strong women or something.
^^^
That's ridiculous. In the context of the story they're portraying; that the Klingons did that isn't a dig, it makes perfect sense, and adds background to the situation. Hell, the character herself is basically laughing at the fact that the Klingons did that - and proving them wrong every time she showed up, survived, and kick Klingon ass. Taken IN CONTEXT, there's nothing wrong with how it was portrayed. Warfare is not, nor will it ever be 'politically correct'.

 

[dswynne1]

I thought it was a well done production. I'm not that bothered that its focus was narrow because it's an introduction to a specific thing. My biggest quibble is was Terra supposed to be Earth? Because it's called Earth.

Earth/Terra - it's the same word.

And the words I would like to use to describe a person who cares about how I write censored expletives, out of respect for this board (and those who frequent it) is "get bent". Is that comprehensible to you?

Actually, I think you should use an "are" here:

"And the words I would like to use to describe a person who cares about how I write censored expletives, out of respect for this board (and those who frequent it) are "get bent".

And yet you can still "get bent". Please do so.

 

[Kruezerman]

McCoy called Spock a green blooded son of a bitch in III. Was there outrage then?

They called her a bitch, not a cunt.

Did I miss the memo when we became puritanical? We want a strong female lead, but it's almost we want humans as a whole to be weak and limp wristed. I don't know what it'll be like in the 23rd century, but I seriously doubt it'll be the world of absolute PC. Where everybody's Mr. Rogers and shit. We want the human adventure, but we don't want humans in it, we want caricatures.

I hope they say "fuck" in this film. Make y'all's heads explode.

 

[BillJ]

We want the human adventure, but we don't want humans in it, we want caricatures.

I think this says it all.

 

[Maurice]

I think some people are jumping to conclusions, taking "I didn't like that line" to mean "the filmmakers shouldn't do that." No one's advocating censorship here. We're just expressing our reactions to the film and YMMV.

 

[CRM-114]

I'll buy that The Line is uncharacteristically strong language for Star Trek, but it's all apparent that it didn't have the effect on Alexander that the Klingons intended. It really is just lashing out at one who was frustrating to the Klingons. Who knows what she said about them?

Besides, previous iterations of Star Trek have made it clear that profanity hasn't gone away by the 23rd century, even among humans.

 

[Kruezerman]

And double dumbass on you!

 

[Mage]

Fact of the matter is that we ALL have issues with how fan productions have depicted the TOS era through a modern lens.

No we don't. There are plenty of people that have no issues whatsoever with that, so that's a gross overstatement.

No, it's not. And I'm not talking JUST on the issue of Sonya Alexander being called names. Some don't like how the new 'Trek films are being produced. Some don't like one fan production over another. Heck, some don't like TOS, preferring TNG due to it being more utopian and less "military" bent. In other words, we ALL have our biases as to how 'Trek should post-TOS, and NONE of the productions since TOS are like TOS in tone and scope, include the the first six films. So, don't tell me that what I said is a "gross overestimate" of the issue at hand. Personally, I don't have problem with PtA, because, as I alluded to in my statement, regarding the depiction of Peter Kirk in Phase II, it's this production interpretation of 'Trek lore. Haven't there been people here critiquing the crew over the use of the ships seen in Star Trek '09? Exactly. Again, I no problem with PtA because it is their story to tell. And if that story is done well, more power to them.

And trying to pick a fight with me is a tad counter-productive, especially since you missed the entire point of what I said to begin with.

Not picking a fight here. Just saying you said we ALL have issues. I don't. I know more people that don't. I know people that accept all series and movies for what they are (even fan-films), without issues. You can believe that or not, that's your choice. All I know is, saying ALL is an overstatement.

If you think that's picking a fight, well.... Lemme just say that telling people to get bent (one of your other posts) says more about who's picking fights here then you might like to think.

 

[urbandefault]

This whole "Queen Bitch Whore" thing is pretty much a throwaway line. If the actress had a problem with it she could have taken it up with the writer/director/producer, whoever. Obviously it wasn't enough of an issue for her to refuse to say it.

As a Starfleet captain, the character would already have had a pretty thick skin. You don't get to that position by running away sobbing every time some jackass throws a barb. You learn to give as good as you get.

I'd think that getting that far inside the enemy's head would be a badge of honor, something to brag about to your peers over drinks at the O Club.

War is ugly, and being called names by the enemy is hardly one of the ugly parts.

On the other hand, if they'd called her mother the Queen Bitch Whore ... the Klingons would have been obliterated right then and there. You don't talk smack about a Captain's Mom.

 

[Amaris]

"Queen bitch whore" was probably the literal translation. In the original Klingon the insult was probably much more elegant. Klingons are like that. Elegant.

On the other hand, I think JGH's pronunciation of whatever it was he said in Klingon was a bit enthusiastic for a human.

I'm fairly certain that it's Martok, playing the role of J.G. Hertzler.

 

[Deckerd]

I thought it was a well done production. I'm not that bothered that its focus was narrow because it's an introduction to a specific thing. My biggest quibble is was Terra supposed to be Earth? Because it's called Earth.

Earth/Terra - it's the same word.

I also think using Terra instead of Earth may be something from the 80s novels which this film takes after.

It's not the same word. One's a dead language and the other's the English name of the planet. Star Trek always referred to Earth which is natural. They also referred to our race as human so they wouldn't sound like a 50's B movie.

I understand that at this time there would be people from Earth who were not human but I always like the way the folks on B5 referred to them as Earthers and their funny foreign ways.