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No, I didn't laugh. It didn't bother me as I was engrossed in the film, but the girl in front of our row called out "Ooh, he mad!" when she saw that, and THAT made me laugh. 
Did anyone laugh when...
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Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I heard laughter in the theater.
Like an embarrassing little trekkie nerd I was really angry. I felt like JJ (who right up to that moment I adored) had pissed all over a sacred event.
I got over it, I'm fine about it now, I still adore JJ. It makes me laugh how visceral my first reaction was, how.. territorial.
I got over it, I'm fine about it now, I still adore JJ. It makes me laugh how visceral my first reaction was, how.. territorial.
I hated it just as much at first, now I see it as a similar scene to the bit in Rise of the Planet of the Apes just before Ceaser yells noooo! and the cruel guard says 'get your hands off me you filthy ape'
It's just a homage, call back, easter egg, in-joke, call it what you will. I'd still rather they hadn't done it though.
It's just a homage, call back, easter egg, in-joke, call it what you will. I'd still rather they hadn't done it though.
My problem with it is that it's a call back, easter egg, in-joke during a crucial scene in the movie, though. That it's a reference to something else outside the movie is really jarring for me and takes me out of it -- but I suppose that's my biggest problem with the movie in-general; that it wasn't its own thing like ST09, but rather so reliant on TWOK.
I didn't like it. Actually I dint enjoy it because a woman in the theater was telling her companion how that scene was the same dialogue as the old movie and such.
gee, when people will learn to be quiet at movies?
But I dont like JJ SPock. Prime Spock was logical, stoic and above all, cool. That he felt emotions at all was a well-guarded secret. JJ Spock is having fits all the time.
gee, when people will learn to be quiet at movies?
But I dont like JJ SPock. Prime Spock was logical, stoic and above all, cool. That he felt emotions at all was a well-guarded secret. JJ Spock is having fits all the time.
To the extent the story did borrow from TWOK, it was mostly Kirk's death scene (and using Khan, of course), and since it worked so well with Kirk's character arc in the movie, I didn't have a problem with it. In effect, the whole movie was building to that point. That wasn't the case in TWOK. In TWOK, it's almost a cheat that Spock is the hero who sacrifices himself saving the ship instead of Kirk. Kind of like TMP climaxing with Decker doing the heroic thing and joining with V'Ger instead of Kirk. In STID, it's Kirk who finally "takes the bullet" and does the heroic thing at the climax.
comparing JJ Spock who only has been in 2 films to tos spock who has been in 79 episodes and 6 films is a bit irrational. don't you think?
I remember thinking, "What a powerful set of lungs, to be able to make himself heard through the solid rock and into space where you're not supposed to be able to hear anything."
You can pay me right now. I haven't set foot in a theatre since December 1999. If I see the third Abrams movie, it'll either be because I've subscribed to the Space Channel for some other reason and it happens to be on, or it eventually comes to Canadian Netflix. The only reason I watched this stupid second movie was because I had a free "on demand" coupon and it was available.
I was entertained at only one point, where nuSpock uttered the line about displaying many attitudes simultaneously. That was a good line, and actually funny.
My reaction to nuSpock screaming Khan's name was basically:
Spock feeling emotions was a well-guarded secret? WTF. Rewatch "Amok Time". Everyone knew Spock had emotions. That's why McCoy was always trying to get a rise out of him, and why he would sometimes chide Spock for ignoring them.
That is, I believe, one reason why I find the Khan scream so jarring. I really, really liked Kirk's arc a lot. I like how deliberate it was, how well-paced it was. He confused luck for skill. He didn't start taking the job seriously until it became personal. His dismissal of Scotty was fairly childish and kind of spoiled, but then I'd like to think that him asking Uhura and Spock to stop bickering as a step up over his previous cavalier attitude. And then once he realizes what he has to do to save his ship and crew, the arc becomes complete. Those gradual steps had me engrossed pretty deeply; and I don't even like the Kirk character (Prime/Nu/otherwise) that much anyway. if '09 was about his ascension, then XII was about his maturity. But that reference yanked me back, and pretty hard, like a bungee cord to remind me that I was watching a movie after all. Spock yelling out "No" or just in general would've been entirely consistent and heart-wrenching, imo. Him yelling out Khan seemed really forced.
Well put, and I agree on most points. Kirk's arc is the main aspect of Into Darkness that keeps me going and responding to the film. His death grows out of his arc, and regardless of whether or not he is going to come back, for the character, there is no cheat. He cannot beat death but he can make sure his his crew survives. I am with the character 100% and that is why his death matters.
Similarly, I like Spock's arc. One aspect of ID is that it brought with it several themes and arcs from Trek 09. Spock is still dealing with the anger and pain of the loss of his mother and Vulcan. Just like Kirk needs to grow up, Spock still needs to deal with the loss of Amanda, Vulcan and now Pike. Kirk's death was just a final blow in a long series of deaths in his life. I think his scream at Khan was all that emotional tumult pouring out, as he recognizes a friendship he didn't know he had and now another person is dead.
So, for me, I buy the whole scene because I'm with both characters and their arcs.
It's more plausible that a science officer would even know what to do to fix the warp-drive rather than Kirk. Cinematically, having him just abandon the bridge at that moment for the turbolift would have looked weird. Instead you have the iconic moment of them turning to see Spock's empty chair (Spock having left when nobody was watching) and Spock rushing down to engineering. Kirk wasn't just going to leave without anyone noticing. Also, unless Trek II had immediately used the Genesis device to resurrect Kirk, by having him make the sacrifice would have pretty much ended the Trek franchise right then and there. While it's true that the cast and crew always produced each film as if it could be the last, there's no way they would have ended it with their hero dead. Losing Spock was as bold as they could be in the writing.
When you add it all up, all the plot elements in Wrath of Khan click together very nicely.
I've watched Into Darkness three times now. I think it would have been a better film if it had focused on Admiral Marcus' militaristic leanings, and avoided the Harrison/Khan/TWOK stuff altogether. It would have been more like every other good guy vs bad guy film maybe, but would have felt less like a copy of an earlier film in the franchise.
You're right - the TWOK scene is a dig at oldKirk's character, and in keeping with the theme of the film: oldKirk has made a life out of being a superficial and largely self-serving fixer, skimming the surface. In the movie he begins to face the consequences of that: a restless, lonely and unsatisfied middle age, alienation from his children and old problems which he shoved out of sight (literally, in Khan's case) coming back to challenge him again.
He doesn't really face his own shortcomings until the cost is Spock's life.
The only person who should know as much about how his starship runs than the captain is his chief engineer. I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if Spock knew more about how the Enterprise worked than Kirk did. He may know as much (which not all science officers would have to know), but not more. Kirk should've known what needed to be done, too. But he seemed paralyzed. He couldn't "corbomite" himself out of this one. Spock knew what he had to do before Kirk did, and he acted.
And of course they could've killed off Kirk. The next movie would've been about his resurrection, not Spock's.
By the way, they "lost Spock" not because it was the boldest thing they could write, but because Nimoy agreed to be in the movie only after Jack Sowards promised him a death scene. Spock wasn't even in Bennett's first treatment of the story because Bennett was sure Nimoy wouldn't do it. The original death scene was supposed to occur early in the story, but it kept getting pushed farther and farther into the story until Spock was basically in the entire movie.
To which other character would it be "rational" to compare nuSpock, in your opinion?
The only person who should know as much about how his starship runs than the captain is his chief engineer. I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if Spock knew more about how the Enterprise worked than Kirk did. He may know as much (which not all science officers would have to know), but not more. Kirk should've known what needed to be done, too. But he seemed paralyzed. He couldn't "corbomite" himself out of this one. Spock knew what he had to do before Kirk did, and he acted.
And of course they could've killed off Kirk. The next movie would've been about his resurrection, not Spock's.
By the way, they "lost Spock" not because it was the boldest thing they could write, but because Nimoy agreed to be in the movie only after Jack Sowards promised him a death scene. Spock wasn't even in Bennett's first treatment of the story because Bennett was sure Nimoy wouldn't do it. The original death scene was supposed to occur early in the story, but it kept getting pushed farther and farther into the story until Spock was basically in the entire movie.
Spock was Captain of the Enterprise in TWOK.
IMO it wasn't a real ship with 'real' missions, just a training ship all under Spock's command.
I know I know he gave command to Kirk. IMO Kirk was in command of the mission. The ship, the crew's compliment were Spock's responsibility. The tactics, the negotiations were Kirks.
Spock knew the trainees (to some extent) manning this Enterprise. Kirk didn't.
Spock wasn't science officer in TWOK and if Kirk as captain should know the ship better than anyone (except the chief engineer) so should Spock.
And since Spock worked on the ship and Kirk no longer did perhaps Spock would know the ship design better.
And perhaps it needed Vulcan endurance to fix the ship in TWOK. Scott looked like he had tried and failed.
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