Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by xavier, Jul 12, 2014.
Wait, what was I talking about again?
About Borg Khan?
And suddenly I find myself wanting to hear Cumbies say "Resistance is futile," with full-on marble mouth.
I'm on record saying I thought Spock's scream was entirely appropriate. In ST09, Spock Prime told him about the future he and Kirk could have together. Khan took that from him. Throw in the still coping with the loss of Vulcan and his mother, and that's one tough year for Spock.
As far as laughing at it goes, it didn't happen the two times I saw it in crowded theaters. However, I do remember hearing some laughing in the theater during Spock's death scene in TWOK (Spock straightening his tunic; then Spock bumping into something).
Kirk's death scene in STID seems far more gut-wrenching to me. Spock's death scene is more awkward by comparison. Spock's yell works in that highly emotional context. It's actually hard for me to view the scene when I rewatch the movie.
I just don't understand the need for the comparison of the yells, either. They are two separate events, and if the viewer is properly caught up in the moment in STID, there's no reason for one to evoke the other. Some who heard it and immediately thought of Shatner or Jason Alexander and chuckled must not have been into the movie that much in the first place.
Was planning a lengthy post but you've written exactly the arguments I wanted to make--and done it well. (and thanks for saving me the effort)
There was a lot of painfully bad moments in STID, but the scream put an exclamation point on the whole thing.
I had a similar feeling during the dune buggy scene of Nemesis, and when Data says "saddle up, lock and load" in Insurrection.
ST felt dead to me when I walked out of the theater.
Wow. I mean, you're entitled to your opinion. But, wow.
Whether it was the best Trek ever or not is problematic. But I've watched all versions of Trek going back to TOS in first run, enjoyed them all to various degrees, and I thought in spirit and theme that this was as much "Star Trek" as any other version at any other time. Maybe more. Dead? Wow.
There's a need to find the second instance wanting if you already have an axe to grind over the existence of Movie XI. I still hold that as long as the larger fictional "multiverse" as we've known it up to that point is still there, this was worth looking at in its own right. So far, so good for my purposes.
Star Trek felt dead to me after Shades of Grey.
(I like and still like ST09, but to me Nero just followed the long tradition of weak Trek movie villains)
Screaming in general does indeed fit previous behavior, I readily agree. I have absolutely no problems with him screaming his lungs out passionately as he fought Khan on Earth. But screaming out that specific name at that specific time with that particular setup just took me out of the movie lickety-split. Had it been Spock just yelling in pure anger, unable to process the death of his best friend and captain, I think I would've been okay with it.
Cumberbatch's delivery of "My name... is KHAN!" seemed a bit odd to me, especially how he fully dropped his jaw on the last word. If I'd been JJ, I would have wanted another take and told him to dial it back a bit.
I've watched a ton of shitty Star Trek over the years but have never felt the franchise was "dead to me".
The only time Star Trek ever felt dead to me was May 13, 2005.
Well, to paraphrase: Trek's really not dead. As long as we remember it.
Yes that was cringe worthy as well when Cumberbatch said my name is Khan it felt like an inside joke told to us the audience because we get who Khan is from the TOS Time line but Nu Kirk and Spock dont.
I'd agree with you if the scene from STID wasn't deliberately copying TWOK. Hell, half the dialogue is exactly the same.
I guarantee Spock would not have yelled "Khaaaaaan!" in STID if Kirk hadn't done so in TWOK.
I didn't mind the scene; I actually enjoyed the role reversal in Kirk's death scene, but the main reason I liked it is because I spent the whole time thinking about how it compared to TWOK.
Maybe some would be happier if he yelled fuck or shit. Screaming Khan seemed much better to me than either swear word. Or he coulda just yelled "THE WOMEN!" again.
Or he could have just yelled, period. No need for a word, just something gutteral and from the heart. He's done that plenty over the two movies, which was fine then.
Or he coulda just yelled "THE WOMEN!" again.
I think any yell would've made people think of the Khan yell, especially considering Khan was in the movie and largely responsible for what happened.
The writers took a chance. Some think it was a fine moment, others, not. That's the way it goes, I guess. If the yell doesn't work for someone on its own merits, that's fine. The writers certainly knew fans would make comparisons. I guess they just wanted fans to appreciate each in their separate contexts.
Yes, I laughed.
Separate names with a comma.