You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

[sonak]

I'm not sure who Acadians are, so it's difficult for me to respond to that, but as I noted earlier, in an age of replicators, transporters, holodecks, etc. I see little point in placing too much emphasis on "home", especially if by moving you can do a whole bunch of other people a world of good...no pun intended.

agreed


It's also why I didn't sympathized much with the Maquis "cause." What's the big deal about a specific planet as home if you live in a techno-utopia like the Federation?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I would want them to rise to the shining example we set when it comes to morality.

And aliens would give a rats ass about human morality why exactly?

besides Dougherty already said the federation doesn't have any idea how the collector actually works so how the hell is a terrorist organization (that needs Starfleet to do their dirty work because of how pathetic they are when you actually think about it) supposed to build one.

You don't think the Sona actually built the collector themselves do you? S31 would get the saome people to build them a collector as the Sona did. One of the Sona's "servant races."

And they would help them why exactly?

That's assuming that the federation council doesn't beat them to it, I firmly believe that after the council review of the matter that they would be the ones to have another collector built,

The TNG crew and Janeway not looking any younger in Nemesis along with DS9 no mentioning any magic particles seems to shoot the theory down.

followed by the federation harvesting the particles for the benefit of the federation members.

Oh so the Ba'ku not sharing the particles is bad but the federation not sharing them is good

 

[SeerSGB]

Another way to have dealt with the issue, not perfect but it could have worked, is have the reveal towards the end that either the particles won't/can't work when they're harvested, the effect only works on the planet/the influence of the planet and you reverse to your original state once you leave the influence, or that Ruafo was pulling a fast one and the collector is actually a WMD the whole time and he couldn't give a shit about anything other than nuking the planet.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I'm not sure who Acadians are, so it's difficult for me to respond to that, but as I noted earlier, in an age of replicators, transporters, holodecks, etc. I see little point in placing too much emphasis on "home", especially if by moving you can do a whole bunch of other people a world of good...no pun intended.

agreed


It's also why I didn't sympathized much with the Maquis "cause." What's the big deal about a specific planet as home if you live in a techno-utopia like the Federation?

Yeah, how dare those people expect the federation not to be complete morons who negotiate a treaty with someone and let them get away with using it as toilet paper while probably laughing at them the whole time because checking to make sure the other guys are actually obeying the damned treaty

I mean seriously if the Federation didn't even notice a freaking shooting war in the DMZ just what the hell is Starfleet doing around the Federation/Cardassian playing with their thumbs.

Sheesh whats next removing the outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone, turning off all their planetary defense systems, or maybe ignoring the next Borg Cube that shows up.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Another way to have dealt with the issue, not perfect but it could have worked, is have the reavel towards the end that either the particles won't/can't work when they're harvested, the effect only works on the planet/the influence of the planet and you reverse to your original state once you leave the influence, or that Ruafo was pulling a fast one and the collector is actually a WMD the whole time and he couldn't give a shit about anything other than nuking the planet.

Of course if they don't find out only the collector goes that could be a surprisingly dark ending to a Star Trek movie which would also show some surprising cojones on the film makers part.

Of course this would probably have then been something that would work on a tv series so they could do explore the ramifications of the Federation unintentionally helping to commit genocide.

Because let's face it wouldn't be something that could just be dumped on a rouge group the Federation would have to deal with having just fried an entire planet of innocent people especially if the rest of the quadrant found out about it.

Might have actually made for some interesting TV.

 

[SeerSGB]

Another way to have dealt with the issue, not perfect but it could have worked, is have the reavel towards the end that either the particles won't/can't work when they're harvested, the effect only works on the planet/the influence of the planet and you reverse to your original state once you leave the influence, or that Ruafo was pulling a fast one and the collector is actually a WMD the whole time and he couldn't give a shit about anything other than nuking the planet.

Of course if they don't find out only the collector goes that could be a surprisingly dark ending to a Star Trek movie which would also show some surprising cojones on the film makers part.

Of course this would probably have then been something that would work on a tv series so they could do explore the ramifications of the Federation unintentionally helping to commit genocide.

Because let's face it wouldn't be something that could just be dumped on a rouge group the Federation would have to deal with having just fried an entire planet of innocent people especially if the rest of the quadrant found out about it.

Might have actually made for some interesting TV.

You can still do the happy ending:

Pick up from the "they're the same race" reveal, then have Ruafo flip his lid and lets it slip that his plan all along was to nuke the Baku from orbit and never cared about the rings, and you button up with the same last minute battle on the collector ending with it's destruction.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I'm not sure who Acadians are, so it's difficult for me to respond to that, but as I noted earlier, in an age of replicators, transporters, holodecks, etc. I see little point in placing too much emphasis on "home", especially if by moving you can do a whole bunch of other people a world of good...no pun intended.

Okay, this is who the Acadians were, and this is the reason that they were expelled from their land.

 

[BillJ]

I'm not sure who Acadians are, so it's difficult for me to respond to that, but as I noted earlier, in an age of replicators, transporters, holodecks, etc. I see little point in placing too much emphasis on "home", especially if by moving you can do a whole bunch of other people a world of good...no pun intended.

Okay, this is who the Acadians were, and this is the reason that they were expelled from their land.

I really think people are stretching when they try to compare the relocation of the Ba'ku with the above or the "Trail of Tears".

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Another way to have dealt with the issue, not perfect but it could have worked, is have the reavel towards the end that either the particles won't/can't work when they're harvested, the effect only works on the planet/the influence of the planet and you reverse to your original state once you leave the influence, or that Ruafo was pulling a fast one and the collector is actually a WMD the whole time and he couldn't give a shit about anything other than nuking the planet.

Of course if they don't find out only the collector goes that could be a surprisingly dark ending to a Star Trek movie which would also show some surprising cojones on the film makers part.

Of course this would probably have then been something that would work on a tv series so they could do explore the ramifications of the Federation unintentionally helping to commit genocide.

Because let's face it wouldn't be something that could just be dumped on a rouge group the Federation would have to deal with having just fried an entire planet of innocent people especially if the rest of the quadrant found out about it.

Might have actually made for some interesting TV.

You can still do the happy ending:

Pick up from the "they're the same race" reveal, then have Ruafo flip his lid and lets it slip that his plan all along was to nuke the Baku from orbit and never cared about the rings, and you button up with the same last minute battle on the collector ending with it's destruction.

True though it would be nice if Picard pointed out that this thing could have been avoided if Dougherty had listened to him and bothered to check things out before rushing into trying to harvest the particles with technology they barely understand.

 

[dub]

I am completely in awe that any thread about "Insurrection" has gone 20 pages. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. It was just okay. I know that's just my opinion. Carry on with your passion. :-D

 

[DonIago]

I'm not sure who Acadians are, so it's difficult for me to respond to that, but as I noted earlier, in an age of replicators, transporters, holodecks, etc. I see little point in placing too much emphasis on "home", especially if by moving you can do a whole bunch of other people a world of good...no pun intended.

Okay, this is who the Acadians were, and this is the reason that they were expelled from their land.

I really think people are stretching when they try to compare the relocation of the Ba'ku with the above or the "Trail of Tears".

Agreed.

 

[Armored Saint]

I'm not sure who Acadians are, so it's difficult for me to respond to that, but as I noted earlier, in an age of replicators, transporters, holodecks, etc. I see little point in placing too much emphasis on "home", especially if by moving you can do a whole bunch of other people a world of good...no pun intended.

Okay, this is who the Acadians were, and this is the reason that they were expelled from their land.

I really think people are stretching when they try to compare the relocation of the Ba'ku with the above or the "Trail of Tears".

Picard's indignation was motivated by forced relocations that happened in human history. It was an example of this kind of events.

in an age of replicators, transporters, holodecks, etc. I see little point in placing too much emphasis on "home", especially if by moving you can do a whole bunch of other people a world of good...no pun intended.

Despite all artificial stuff provided by technology, 24th century people seems to still care about having some roots. Why else would the Picard family have continued to make wine and taking car of ancestral vineyards?

 

[sonak]

I'm not sure who Acadians are, so it's difficult for me to respond to that, but as I noted earlier, in an age of replicators, transporters, holodecks, etc. I see little point in placing too much emphasis on "home", especially if by moving you can do a whole bunch of other people a world of good...no pun intended.

agreed


It's also why I didn't sympathized much with the Maquis "cause." What's the big deal about a specific planet as home if you live in a techno-utopia like the Federation?

Yeah, how dare those people expect the federation not to be complete morons who negotiate a treaty with someone and let them get away with using it as toilet paper while probably laughing at them the whole time because checking to make sure the other guys are actually obeying the damned treaty

I mean seriously if the Federation didn't even notice a freaking shooting war in the DMZ just what the hell is Starfleet doing around the Federation/Cardassian playing with their thumbs.

Sheesh whats next removing the outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone, turning off all their planetary defense systems, or maybe ignoring the next Borg Cube that shows up.

I'm not sure what any of that had to do with my point. My point was that relocation for a decent reason should be no big deal in the Trek future we are presented with. The shooting war came after the colonists were already told that they'd be on their own if they decided to stay, so that's hardly a surprise when they were presented with the risks.

 

[T'Girl]

[] The shooting war came after the colonists were already told that they'd be on their own if they decided to stay, so that's hardly a surprise when they were presented with the risks.

The treaty might have stood a much better chance of being up held if the colonist had left the area the treaty stipulated they would.

From what we know of the treaty, did it mention treatment of colonist who refused to leave and agreed to remain (of their own free will) on a Cardassian territorial planet?

The cardassian where apparently staying away from the planets and colonies in the federation after the treaty went into effect.

The colonist wouldn't have had trouble with the Cardassians if they had simply left Cardassian space.

And aliens would give a rats ass about human morality why exactly?

So they could "better themselves," and help others, just like we do.

And they would help them why exactly?

Why for a share of the particles in orbit of a federation planet of course.

The TNG crew and Janeway not looking any younger in Nemesis ...

Janeway looked wonderful.

Oh so the Ba'ku not sharing the particles is bad but the federation not sharing them is good

Question, is distributing the particles for the well being of a trillion people exactly the same as 600 people selfishly keeping the very knowledge of those particles to themselves?

Answer, no.

Actually, it would be easy to see the federation employing the particles as a important trade item outside the federation, in addition to helping people within the federation.

Really hard to imagine the Baku doing the same.

 

[DonIago]

Despite all artificial stuff provided by technology, 24th century people seems to still care about having some roots. Why else would the Picard family have continued to make wine and taking car of ancestral vineyards?

And yet, perhaps paradoxically, I don't see Picard locking & loading to protect his precious vineyards if letting them be burned to the ground would medically benefit a few million people.

 

[sonak]

Despite all artificial stuff provided by technology, 24th century people seems to still care about having some roots. Why else would the Picard family have continued to make wine and taking car of ancestral vineyards?

And yet, perhaps paradoxically, I don't see Picard locking & loading to protect his precious vineyards if letting them be burned to the ground would medically benefit a few million people.

Depends if there were a hot middle-aged woman involved who was urging him to stand his ground and fight.

 

[BillJ]

Picard's indignation was motivated by forced relocations that happened in human history. It was an example of this kind of events.

Picard was indignant because Anij lit a fire in his pants. Tough to score on a booty call if you have an eviction notice in your hand.

Picard didn't care about the Boraalans in "Homeward, nor did he care about the native Americans in "Journey's End". Either passively or aggressively, the Federation gained in both of those situations.

Did the Federation handle the situation poorly? Of course they did. Not because they wanted to move the Ba'ku but because they didn't offer the Ba'ku a seat at the table to discuss their options. Like in most situations involving non-members or primitive societies, the Federation decided what the best course of action for a society was without their input.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Like in most situations involving non-members or primitive societies, the Federation decided what the best course of action for a society was without their input.

Which in this case is the sort of imperialistic bulls@#t the Prime Directive was supposed to put a stop to.

 

[BillJ]

Like in most situations involving non-members or primitive societies, the Federation decided what the best course of action for a society was without their input.

Which in this case is the sort of imperialistic bulls@#t the Prime Directive was supposed to put a stop to.

Problem is, that once more than one party is involved the Prime Directive isn't worth the paper its written on. (See: "A Private Little War")

Once the S'ona opened up to the Federation about the existence of the planet and the Meta-phasic radiation, it's only a matter of time before other parties become interested. Then there is the fact that the S'ona have just as much of a claim to the planet as the Ba'ku. If the S'ona want to scorch the surface of the planet while the Ba'ku are still there, technically the Federation doesn't really have a say as that is an internal matter between the two parties that are of the same race.

In practice, moving the Ba'ku was really the best outcome all parties could hope for. Including the Ba'ku.

 

[SeerSGB]

Like in most situations involving non-members or primitive societies, the Federation decided what the best course of action for a society was without their input.

Which in this case is the sort of imperialistic bulls@#t the Prime Directive was supposed to put a stop to.

Trek seems to treat the PD as a suggestion more than a hard and fast rule. We hear a lot about it's the highest law a starship Captain must obey, but right and left it gets violated and tossed in the trash for the sake of the story.