Farscape or Babylon 5?

[Harvey]

You skipped four of the best (not to mention crucial) episodes of the series based on a knee-jerk reaction to their plot summaries on the internet. That's just bewildering to me, but to each their own.

If you don't care of the upcoming three-part "Liars Guns and Money" and the finale, well...you're just not a fan of the series. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you shouldn't expect it to change dramatically from this point on. Probably best to stick with Babylon 5.

 

[kirk55555]

You skipped four of the best (not to mention crucial) episodes of the series based on a knee-jerk reaction to their plot summaries on the internet. That's just bewildering to me, but to each their own.

If you don't care of the upcoming three-part "Liars Guns and Money" and the finale, well...you're just not a fan of the series. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you shouldn't expect it to change dramatically from this point on. Probably best to stick with Babylon 5.

Well, I plan to watch the Liars, Guns and Money episodes. The synopsis makes it seem like good episodes. The Princess Trilogy just looked horrible, and I read long summaries, a full page an episode. They were actually too long, I would have liked a bit less depth. What did they reveal/have happen that was so important? Revealing that scorpius's head tube is some kind of heat moderation unit? Showing that some random guy can kill Moya whenever he wants? Having D'Argo and Chiana get together? I didn't miss any of the plot points, I just avoided watching a few painful episodes.

I remember when I said I hated A Human Reaction and got similar comments, yet I don't regret continuing with the series. Besides, reading synopsis it looks like the series is picking up, the rest of the episodes this season sound like they have potential (although with only 4 episodes left, they should). I will admit that I may be missing something, but I don't think you can take my skipping three episodes and say that if I don't like them, I don't like the series.

When I started this thread, I didn't think it would get so intense, I was just posting about my experiences with two sci fi shows I'd never watched befpre

 

[Kegg]

The synopsis makes it seem like good episodes. The Princess Trilogy just looked horrible, and I read long summaries, a full page an episode. They were actually too long, I would have liked a bit less depth. What did they reveal/have happen that was so important?

The execution. Kiss the Princess is a gonzo paced story that juggles a dozen weird plots. It's got terrific comedy moments, twists, standoffs, the works. There's some great Crichton/D'Argo moments here. Great bits for Scorpius. As silly as the plot can sound, it challenges Crichton in ways that are interesting and in ways that Browder acts out pretty well. Farscape did many multi-part episode arcs, and they're almost uniformly excellent. While the show can be severely uneven, Kiss the Princess is widely seen as one of the standout achievements of season two.

I dunno. Honestly, if you said you'd watched it and it bored you to tears I think that'd produce a less apopleptic response then the one you've been getting. Skipping Farscape episodes because the idea sounds silly doesn't exactly leave a lot of episodes left to actually watch, as Farscape being silly is kind of the default mode of the program.

When I started this thread, I didn't think it would get so intense, I was just posting about my experiences with two sci fi shows I'd never watched befpre

Ignoring comic books, there's an extent to which this is the Babylon 5/Farscape subforum, as discussions of both shows occur pretty regularly and each are held in high esteem as two of the best TV series of their genre.

So you're definitely going to get a lot of passion when it comes to these programs.

 

[kirk55555]

I get what you mean, but if I had watched them, my post just would have been "I wtached it for 5 minutes, threw my shoe at my TV, then skipped the episodes". Its not the silliness I have problems with. Its watching a story I've seen a million times that gets on my nerves. The Princess trilogy's story is based on what is probably one of the top 5 biggest cliches of all time (and one I personally hate 99% of the time), and it doesn't seem to have done anything special with the premise at all. I wouldn't put up with a Star Trek episode that used that premise (and I would bet one or two have), and if I couldn't stand it from my favorite sci Fi franchise ever, Farscape has no chance of doing it in a way I can stand. Thats not to say others can't like it, but its literally taking a premise I hate and then not adding anything to it to make me interested. Maybe if Rygel had to marry a proncess, I could see it being funny or being different. As it is, the only regret I have about skipping the trilogy is the bad reaction I've gotten for not wanting to watch it, like I've stated before making people angry is not something I want to do.

 

[Reverend]

First off, I did skip the princess trilogy, Beware of Dog and won't get Fooled Again

Oh dear lord, what are you doing mate?! I'm sure by now you're probably already sick of people telling you off for this, but just imagine for a second you're sitting watching a film with a friend. It's a film you like and are enjoying introducing it to someone else...but then your friend starts skipping scenes because a character they don't like pops up and hitting fast forward because they think they know what's going to happen next.

Now, tell me that after a few minutes of this you wouldn't be fighting the urge to beat said friend to death with the remote.

Seriously. Go back and watch these episodes and stop reading ahead! You're not *watching* the show, you're skimming it. Try that with a novel and see how soon you get lost and loose all interest and any investment in the characters.

As someone else said up-thread; there's more to an episode than the premise and the plot. To give an example, my favourite episodes of 'Babylon 5' looks very boring on paper. It does nothing to advance the story from the previous episode into the next, has none of my favourite characters and consists of little more than two characters, sitting on opposite sides of a table, talking to each other. You could very easily skip this episode and not even notice. The events are never directly referenced every again, the other person is never seen nor mentioned every again. However, it's one of the best character pieces in the entire series and tells you just about everything you need to know about what makes a certain main character tick.

P.S. For those who haven't guessed already and to make sure nobody let's a spoiler slip by asking, the episode I'm describing is: -

Spoiler: episode title

'Intersections in Real Time'

 

[Jolaris]

I've been lurking in this thread for a while, but now I do have to chime in.

"Won't get fooled again" - Personally I think it's one of the most bizarre, weird, surreal and laugh out loud-funny hours of television I have ever experienced. It's hilarious!
I don't think many other shows would dare go where that episode went...

Well, until "Revenging Angel"...

Does it not also introduce a certain new best friend of Crichton who likes to... um... mess with his head?
And as someone said before, it explains alot about why Crichton is slowly going totally and utterly insane.

To be fair to kirk55555 though, It took me like year after A Human Reaction before the confusion about Ancients and why everyone wants Crichtons head disappeared. I had to rewatch that episode and then it all fell into place.

And kirk55555, you were wondering what important stuff you missed in the Princess-trilogy?

It puts a new major player on the galactic chessboard where the winners gets' what's inside Crichton's head.

I think what most people are having a problem is you are skipping those episodes that are the equivalent of skipping every episode involving aliens or the Conspiracy if this had been the X-Files.

And kirk55555, there is no such thing as a new story, every story has been done to death many times before, it's all about the execution and the characters, and that is something Farscape is very, very, good at.

 

[kirk55555]

Yeah, every story has been done, but I still can't get past the "guy has to marry someone he doesn't love for stupid reasons instead of being with the person he does love" premise. I just hate that premise/cliche so much. I know I'd feel like breaking something if I had to suffer through that. It's not just Farscape, though. I honestly don't think anyone could do that story in a way I wouldn't hate it. Combine that with everything else I read about the episodes (he becomes a statue? Really? And Scorpius needs a tube in his head to regulate his temperature? ) and it just seems like something that would be a chore to sit through.

I am kind of wondering why old John in The Locket was talking to an imaginary Scorpius, but I'm sure it was either a) he was going senile or it had something to do with what was happening in that dimension/world or b) it was some other reason, that will be brought up later anyway.

As for Won't Get Fooled Again, I know people keep saying its not like A Human Reaction, but its still too close for me to have any desire to watch it. I know its not the real Earth, therefore its just a waste of time to watch him walk around a obviously fake earth for 30+ minutes until he escapes/gets rescued/gets released and he's back on Moya like nothing happened. I just don't understand the appeal.

 

[Harvey]

"Won't Get Fooled Again" explains the Harvey (Scorpius) character you saw in "The Locket." His existence will be recapped in the "previously on" montage more than once, though.

 

[kirk55555]

"Won't Get Fooled Again" explains the Harvey (Scorpius) character you saw in "The Locket." His existence will be recapped in the "previously on" montage more than once, though.

I figured it would get mentioned eventually, and probably explained later on. That was the only think I didn't know about because of skipping the Princess Trilogy, so I think I'll be fine going on.

 

[Greg Cox]

As for Won't Get Fooled Again, I know people keep saying its not like A Human Reaction, but its still too close for me to have any desire to watch it. I know its not the real Earth, therefore its just a waste of time to watch him walk around a obviously fake earth for 30+ minutes until he escapes/gets rescued/gets released and he's back on Moya like nothing happened. I just don't understand the appeal.

Because it's surreal and outrageous and blackly comic?

Honestly, it's much better ep than "The Locket," which, as I recall, is more of a straightforward time-travel drama like you'd find on any other SF series.

Again, there's more to any TV episode than just what happens. There's the acting, the editing, the dialogue and character interactions, the grace notes and funny bits that make the whole experience worth watching. Not to mention the costumes and makeup and special effects.

You can't just judge a story by the plot alone. By that standard, JAWS is just "a big shark eats some people, then they blow it up." And the Spielberg movie is no different than some low-budget straight-to-video knockoff.

What matters is not the plot, but how the story is told . . . and the experience along the way. It's the journey, not the destination.

 

[Lindley]

You know what the really ironic thing is? kirk's reaction to A Human Reaction is exactly the same as Crichton's is to the beginning of WGFA. More or less, "A 'he's really back on earth' story? REALLY?"

 

[kirk55555]

Because it's surreal and outrageous and blackly comic?

Honestly, it's much better ep than "The Locket," which, as I recall, is more of a straightforward time-travel drama like you'd find on any other SF series.

Yeah, I wouldn't say The Locket was a particularly good episode. Not bad, but its definately forgettable.

Again, there's more to any TV episode than just what happens. There's the acting, the editing, the dialogue and character interactions, the grace notes and funny bits that make the whole experience worth watching. Not to mention the costumes and makeup and special effects.

You're right, although I can forgive bad make up/special effects/editing if the story is good. Still, there is just some stuff I don't like, reguardless of what show is doing it. The whole fake out thing that episodes like A Human reaction/WGFA have is definately something I don't enjoy, as is the premise of the Princess Trilogy. Its nothing against farscape, I just don't think stuff like that is entertaining (well, the fake out thing, in very rare instances, can be done well, but after A human reaction I don't think Farscape can do it).

You can't just judge a story by the plot alone. By that standard, JAWS is just "a big shark eats some people, then they blow it up." And the Spielberg movie is no different than some low-budget straight-to-video knockoff.

I actually don't like Jaws. I can kind of see why people that saw it when it came out would like it, but it came out 15 years before I was born, and to me its just a slow movie with lackluster shark effects

What matters is not the plot, but how the story is told . . . and the experience along the way. It's the journey, not the destination.

I get what you mean, but why would I want to experience the bumps on the way to the destination? I don't think I've ever watched every episode of a tV show, there is always some episodes I skip (well, except maybe episodes of Firefly, those were all pretty good). Farscape's second season has been a bit rough, but its picking up now, and just looking ahead I don't forsee and skips for awhile (unless one of the upcoming episodes is a Chiana episode and I can't tell from the summary, then there may be some skipping, or atleast some major fast forwarding).

You know what the really ironic thing is? kirk's reaction to A Human Reaction is exactly the same as Crichton's is to the beginning of WGFA. More or less, "A 'he's really back on earth' story? REALLY?"

Yeah, that was basically my reaction. I couldn't believe they'd pull out that cliche again so soon.

 

[Lindley]

The whole fake out thing that episodes like A Human reaction/WGFA have is definately something I don't enjoy

WGFA doesn't qualify as a fake-out story. It doesn't even try to pretend he's really on Earth for more than about 30 seconds.

 

[KellynSE]

Here’s the thing: Farscape is just as much a character study of one John Crichton as it is a space opera, and "Won’t Get Fooled Again" is as adept an examination of John’s psyche as any other episode that ever aired. Skip episodes like this, and you are not getting the entire story.

I like both “A Human Reaction” and “Won’t Get Fooled Again,” but like every other single poster has insisted: These. Episodes. Are. Nothing. Alike. Different tone. Different style. Very different context.

If you recall the bit of AHR you did watch--was it a surreal, lightning paced black comedy barreling towards a shattering, chilling conclusion? No? Then it’s not “Won’t Get Fooled Again” by any stretch of the imagination.

You said you liked "The Ugly Truth"? So did I, but it's far far far more pedestrian as a Rashomon retread than WGFA is as a riff on Back To Fake Earth.

 

[KellynSE]

You know what the really ironic thing is? kirk's reaction to A Human Reaction is exactly the same as Crichton's is to the beginning of WGFA. More or less, "A 'he's really back on earth' story? REALLY?"


Yeah, that was basically my reaction. I couldn't believe they'd pull out that cliche again so soon.

If the show is saying the same thing that you are then maybe, just maybe you might want to trust that it knows what it's doing in this particular instance.

 

[Jolaris]

As for Won't Get Fooled Again, I know people keep saying its not like A Human Reaction, but its still too close for me to have any desire to watch it. I know its not the real Earth, therefore its just a waste of time to watch him walk around a obviously fake earth for 30+ minutes until he escapes/gets rescued/gets released and he's back on Moya like nothing happened. I just don't understand the appeal.

The appeal is that the episode is both laugh-out-loud funny in its' absurdity and chilling in it's conclusion. When I watched it for the first time it didn't take long before I had entirely forgotten that it was suppose to be about a fake earth and just rolled with the comedy as it goes more and more of the rails...

And on Farscape there is no such thing as "he's back like nothing happened".

It's like saying Schindler's List and Robin Hood: Men in Tights are about a man saving the common people from a dictator.

 

[JD]

Watch this clip and this clip, and then you can see why people love WGFA so much. IMO if you don't like these clips then you should just stop watch Farscape right now.

 

[Forbin]

"You have the right to the remains of a silent attorney!"

How can you not love it?

 

[Sindatur]

To say nothing of the fact, the title tells you it's not the same Won't Get Fooled Again"

 

[Greg Cox]

The whole fake out thing that episodes like A Human reaction/WGFA have is definately something I don't enjoy

WGFA doesn't qualify as a fake-out story. It doesn't even try to pretend he's really on Earth for more than about 30 seconds.

Precisely, as the title indicates, Crichton doesn't get faked out again. That's the whole point. The episode takes the original gimmick and throws it out the window--with extreme prejudice!

Plus, again, the execution and tone of a story is what matters,not the bare bones of the plot. The story of King Arthur has been done as a Disney cartoon, a Broadway musical, a Monty Python spoof, and an R-rated epic full of blood and sex, but I don't think you can assume they're all just the same old thing.

"Nah, I didn't like Camelot, so I'm going to skip Excalibur."