I thought Valiant was a very good episode

[NrobbieC]

Yeah Nog was promoted, Watters was Captain by position but only acting captain by rank (I'm failry certain the cadets introduce themselves as 'acting' whatever)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^But Nog's commission was a full commission authorised by Starfleet Command, Red Squad was a field commission, wouldn't Starfleet command have to authorise them to become pernament commissions.

The Valiant originally did have a skeleton crew of real officers. Presumably they all signed off on whatever commissions Red Squad had. That's the authorization.

 

[Sexy Human]

I first saw this one after hearing on the tubes about how bad it was. I have to say, except for the conceit of not one of the cadets thinking "shit, this is retarded, we need to head back to Earth/Vulcan/Andor/any goddamn starbase and tell Starfleet what happened", I like the episode. A good character piece for both Nog and Jake, had the very Trek message about the dangers of arroganace, and it was cool to see the Dominion War from a non-Sisko/Defiant/DS9 perspective.

For what it's worth, my girlfriend, who mercilessly mocks most of the trek episodes she catches me watching, really liked this episode. The only other Trek she's liked were the Abrams movie and the Picard parts of "Darmok", so I'm not sure what that says.

Pics of your gf?

 

[Spock/Uhura Fan]

^ Lol. You're the one claiming to be sexy. How about some pics of you? (No offense, just kidding.)

----

By the way. I loved this episode. It's one of the best Star Trek episodes, period. For all of the people that are like "It was so obvious they were gonna fail. They were stupid and arrogant and that's what made this a bad episode," I think you're missing the point.

It's a wonderful display of dramatic irony, where we as the audience know that they are going to fail, but as a crew they do not. The tragedy and the real weight of the episode is seeing them realize, far too late, that they are not gods. They are mere mortals, and they are going to fail. The problem wasn't the kind of ship they had, or the fact that they were able to learn hands-on doing some special ops work. The problem was the hubris they were allowed to have by being "Red Squad" members, and it got them killed.

All they had to do was follow orders, and they would have been okay. Even Jake tried to tell them that his dad was exceptional, and even he wouldn't try what they were attempting. This is where I think Starfleet failed them, and this was purposefully shown within the episode. It was no mistake. You had young people who were told they were so great and they were under pressure to be great (like many talented and gifted people that are expected to succeed). The "captain" seemed to be under so much pressure that he was popping pills just to make it. So, there's a tale in there about drug use affecting decision makings skills as well.

There's a lot going on in this episode, and I think to just drum it down to "It's bad" is to miss what you are supposed to be getting out of it. It's very complex and layered, and I think everyone played their part very well. If you don't like it, then you don't like it, but I wouldn't call it "bad." I think you have to be more objective than that, but that's just my (arguably subjective) opinion.

 

[craig keith]

Its was an okay episode ... it defently was not one of ds9's best... as other people have said nog should have gone in there and taken command. Nog was promoted to ensign and was the senior officer.

But what really really got to me was that watters looked like a young tom cruise ... and even before we relised he was a stim junkey prik of a capt, i wanted him to die just cus he looked like tom frikkin cruise

 

[NrobbieC]

But what really really got to me was that watters looked like a young tom cruise ... and even before we relised he was a stim junkey prik of a capt, i wanted him to die just cus he looked like tom frikkin cruise

Best summary of that character ever.

There were too many Americans on Valiant

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It's an American show, filmed in America, written and produced by Americans. What did you expect?

 

[NrobbieC]

^ It's an American show, filmed in America, written and produced by Americans. What did you expect?

I know that, I was being factitious. Though didn't they make Sirtis put on an accent because they didn't want "too many Brits on the bridge" I'm allowed to complain

 

[Mr_Homn]

^ It's an American show, filmed in America, written and produced by Americans. What did you expect?

Ds9 wasn't full of americans, TNG enterprise wasn't full of americans, TOS wasn't full of americans. Star trek has always been diverse despite being filmed in America.

Valiant did seem pretty "un-diverse" compared to the usual. I guess if they are trying to cast arrogant cocky annoying brats, they have to make them all white americans for some reason.


Edit- Actually, the guy who was commanding the valiant was played by a canadian. But i still found it kinda funny that the crew of the cockiest brattiest punks in starfleet was comprised soley of white humans (from what I remember)

 

[Distorted Humor]

Its not Meridian bad, but its bad.

 

[Dream]

They made the Valiant crew too unlikable. It was almost like a cartoon. I think the episode would have been much better and tragic if it had only been the acting Captain that was the douchebag, while the rest of the crew was simply following orders.

 

[Mr_Homn]

They made the Valiant crew too unlikable. It was almost like a cartoon. I think the episode would have been much better and tragic if it had only been the acting Captain that was the douchebag, while the rest of the crew was simply following orders.

Then at the end we might find out he was a relative of this guy:

(locarno, not paris)

 

[craig keith]

They made the Valiant crew too unlikable. It was almost like a cartoon. I think the episode would have been much better and tragic if it had only been the acting Captain that was the douchebag, while the rest of the crew was simply following orders.

however if the rest of the crew wernt douchbags they should have relieved him for being unfit to command and gotten the hell outta dodge

 

[JaxsBrokenHeart]

Valiant would have played better for me if they had better explored the idea of young officers like Red Squad getting commands and responsibilities far too early because the war killing off good experienced crewman. The excessive hubris and arrogance being in some ways a mask for a fanatical devotion to getting a victory for the Federation (something perhaps distinct to that generation, being the first generation of cadets raised an educated in the era of major casualties to the Borg and the Dominion) would have been more interesting to me.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Since I never saw the entire DS9 series when it first came out, I'm watching it now via streaming Netflix.

I just saw this episode today. When I saw how cocky the crew was, I figured it wasn't going to end well. As soon as I saw the "Captain" popping pills, the ending was obvious to me.

I thought at least a few of the escape pods would survive, but having only one survive which just happened to have Jake and Nog on it...well, that was a little too convenient.

They should have shaken things up a bit and have them killed off too.

 

[Spock/Uhura Fan]

Well, I like the way it ended, and I think the episode worked. It's one of the series' best.

 

[grabthars hammer]

While the cadets eventually got annoying and were way too arrogant/burnt-out to continue their 'mission', they did come off as capable and their plan and reasoning to take down the Dominion ship wasn't completely without merit. It just showed, like DS9 often did, that techobabble doesnt always save the day.

 

[MacLeod]

yes, but the orders were to gather intel on the ship and reurn it to command. Not gather data on the new battleship and attempt to take it down.

 

[grabthars hammer]

yes, but the orders were to gather intel on the ship and reurn it to command. Not gather data on the new battleship and attempt to take it down.

I didn't say they should've done what they did, it was borne out of arrogance but it wasn't just a blind attack into the complete unknown, either. Even the best starfleet officers have been known to severely misinterpret their orders.

 

[Nightdiamond]

But they were supposed to be better than 21st century humans.

Starfleet officers are supposed to have better morals than the average 24th century person, to hear some Starfleet officers talk.

I got a sense of arrogant, over privileged kids that were pampered by Starfleet.

Why the the snobby attitudes? 24th century humans are supposed to be better than we are, but no matter what time periods you live in, a nasty glare is a nasty glare.

One strange or dumb thing in the episode is how they have the one Vulcan there (like they always do) and he pretty much goes along with all of it.

I would think a Vulcan would be the first one to say that the plan was illogical.