Same Sex Marriage

[T'Girl]

All homosexual people I know are living boring, ordinary and monogamous lives.

All? I know plenty of gays who exactly fit all three items on that list (boring, ordinary, monogamous) and they're happy about it, but many of the young gays I know are not monogamous at this point in their lives. My transsexuality make me far from any use of the term "ordinary." Admittedly I am not homosexual.

but I view it as more important that Trek portrays homosexual people as what they are

Which does go to what I was avocating, gays exist across a spectrum, not a spot. If you want to show a gay character who is just a "typical 24th century person," then they most likely are not going to be monogamous, because most of the main character people weren't. Some were, O'Brien would be a good example of such. And on a personal level I endorse monogamy, but the character we're discussing (given TV productions) most likely will neither be monogamous, nor celibate.

 

[horatio83]

Because social norms have been heterosexual and monogamous homosexual people, probably more so a few decades ago than today, countered this via being promiscuous. It naturally became a bit of a counter-cultural thing.
Yet nowadays with homophobia being in decline this aspect also wanes and homosexual folks are on average as promiscuous as heterosexual folks.

In other words, I have no problem with a promiscuous homosexual character as long as the portrayal is natural and avoids any associations with the above, what you could call counter-cultural extra-promiscuity, as this would imply that true equality has not been achieved yet.

The US might be a bit of an exception due to the power of the Christian right but everywhere else homophobia is in decline so I do not view a homosexual Trek character as a big thing. You mentioned that you are transsexual and transgender folks have a much harder time that gay folks, probably because the mere existence of a transgender person raises all these Judith Butler type questions that people do not like to ask themselves. So yeah, if Trek really wanted to be at the final frontier it'd portray a transsexual or intersexual character.

 

[T'Girl]

The US might be a bit of an exception due to the power of the Christian right but everywhere else homophobia is in decline ...

Not really, it depends on where you look. People in Canada are accepting on gays, but in the majority of North America and all of South America it's fifty-fifty. West and Central Europe is accepting, East Europe is generally negative on gays. All Asia generally negative on gays. Africa is incredible negative, except for South Africa and Angola which are only mostly negative. Indonesia is generally negative. People in Japan, Philippines and Australia tend towards being accepting of gays.

In something like seventy plus countries it's illegal (to varying degrees) to simply be gay, in six (or is it seven?) countries the death penalty can be applied.

 

[horatio83]

Sorry, my mistake. So at the risk of being called a racist I say everywhere in the civilized world. With the recent movements in your country you Americans stand a good chance of joining the Free World.
Seriously, I do not think it is a coincidence that mainly Western liberal democracies accept homosexual people and grant them the right to marry.

 

[T'Girl]

With the recent movements in your country you Americans stand a good chance of joining the Free World.

We Americans define the Free World.

Seriously, I do not think it is a coincidence that mainly Western liberal democracies accept homosexual people and grant them the right to marry.

Gay marriage is legal in Canada, Argentina, Brazil, and they are legally preformed in Mexico City only I believe.

Only eight of the fifty European nations have gay marriage (Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, and Denmark). So, most of Europe isn't part of the civilized world?

 

[Deckerd]

Scotland's likely to make it legal soon. They already have civil partnerships in the UK but straight couples complained that they couldn't have this ceremony so I'm guessing Westminster will just go for marriage too within a couple of years.

 

[horatio83]

Only eight of the fifty European nations have gay marriage (Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, and Denmark). So, most of Europe isn't part of the civilized world?

Stupid sophistry, all central European have gay marriage or a civil union type of equivalent. Gee, over here there are plenty of homosexual conservative politicians which is impossible to imagine in the US.

 

[T'Girl]

... and grant them the right to marry.

... or a civil union type of equivalent

Make up your mind sweetness, and let us all know when it happens okay?

There's a diffence between a gay civil union and a gay marriage. We might temporarily settle for the former, but we will eventualy have the latter.

... plenty of homosexual ...

I've noticed that in your past postings you tend to use homosexual, and rarely gay.

Really that should be "plenty of gay," most gay persons have a preferance to be referred to as gay, as opposed to homosexual, because the word gay places the emphasis on the social and cultural aspects of our lifestyles, and not just on the sexual act.

Also there are more people covered under the "umbrella" term gay than just homosexuals. That's where you get the LGBT acronym from (or LGBTQQAIPS).

Actually, "... plenty of conservative politicians who are gay," would have been even better still.

Stupid sophistry

Best you could do?

 

[horatio83]

Homosexuality is not a lifestyle and I couldn't care less about how people wanna be called. No idea what your problem, probably pissed off because I dared to point out that the US isn't the best place in the world for homosexual people.

 

[-SS-]

I would think in the 23rd/24th centuries they would be beyond the need for any kind of labels regarding sexuality.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Also there are more people covered under the "umbrella" term gay than just homosexuals. That's where you get the LGBT acronym from (or LGBTQQAIPS).

Ok, I know what the LGBT stands for, but what about the rest?

 

[Maurice]

Also there are more people covered under the "umbrella" term gay than just homosexuals. That's where you get the LGBT acronym from (or LGBTQQAIPS).

Ok, I know what the LGBT stands for, but what about the rest?

LGBTQQIA = Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Queer Questioning Intersex and Allies. I dunno what the PS means.

A lot of us in the LBGT community are getting a little tired of this nonstop alphabet souping going on. There's a point when you start adding so many groups in that the term becomes too broad. It might as well be "the not hetero community" if they keep glomming more groups on it. Maybe a new term is needed.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Thanks for that Maurice.

You're right, the rest is just a little OTT.

 

[Deckerd]

I feel an overwhelming urge to use the word 'homosexual' now. I wouldn't normally but my hackles are up.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Also there are more people covered under the "umbrella" term gay than just homosexuals. That's where you get the LGBT acronym from (or LGBTQQAIPS).

Ok, I know what the LGBT stands for, but what about the rest?

LGBTQQIA = Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Queer Questioning Intersex and Allies. I dunno what the PS means.

A lot of us in the LBGT community are getting a little tired of this nonstop alphabet souping going on. There's a point when you start adding so many groups in that the term becomes too broad. It might as well be "the not hetero community" if they keep glomming more groups on it. Maybe a new term is needed.

PS would be Pan-Sexual, I assume.

 

[T'Girl]

I would agree about the overabundance of letters, you could I suppose' just list the alphabet and each letter would correspond to some identity. LGBT works the majority of the time.

PS is Pan-sexual and Self-sexual, the latter are apparently only sexually attracted to themselves (let's be inclusive now).

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Wouldn't it just be easier to say people?

 

[Deckerd]

Wouldn't it just be easier to say people?

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Self-sexual, the latter are apparently only sexually attracted to themselves (let's be inclusive now).

So chronic masturbators then?

Trek could fill a ship with different sexual orientations. Then make that ship part of a fleet where everyone has their own distinct fetish. Give Torchwood a run for its money!!

 

[T'Girl]

Well, everyone keeps harping on how ratings are sooooo bloody important.