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The Lesbians

Ezri D

Lieutenant
Out of all the female cast members, TOS, TNG, DS9, Enterprise, Voyager: so much is given by the fans to say the female characters of DS9 were more used as being lesbians. I do not have a problem with the topic, it is interesting why.

True, we did have the mirror universe and they always wanted to make the female characters in the mirror universe to act or be a lesbian. I do have a problem with it as I think it was ovee done. Still, I do not understand why the fun and enjoyment of the fans.

Help me understand? :razz:
 
DS9 was made during a period where stuff like that was being done for the first time. The closest TNG had come to the issue was the timid and embarrassing "the outcast."

As for the Mirror universe lesbianism, it was a short-hand way of making the mirror characters "outrageous," like Mirror Kira. It was basically done for fun.
 
I understand that the writers intended The Emporer's New Cloak to be a funny episode, but I don't like the idea that, aside from Rejoined, the only homosexuality throughout Trek happens in the evil Mirror Universe.

I know that wasn't their intent but that is the legacy modern Trek left.
 
I understand that the writers intended The Emporer's New Cloak to be a funny episode, but I don't like the idea that, aside from Rejoined, the only homosexuality throughout Trek happens in the evil Mirror Universe.

I know that wasn't their intent but that is the legacy modern Trek left.
Yup, Jadzia Dax fought on the "Good side", no Lesbianism there. Jennfier turned to the Good Side, no Lesbianism there. Sisko, Smiley, Bashir all fought on the "good side", none of them Gay. <SIGH>
 
As for the Mirror universe lesbianism, it was a short-hand way of making the mirror characters "outrageous," like Mirror Kira. It was basically done for fun.

And didn't Nana say she had a great time playing the Intendant? She was obviously having fun with it.

Sure, lots of lesbians in the MU. But out of all of them, who was actually flat-out evil? Kira, surely. But not really beyond that. And MU-Kira liked it every which way, it seems. So not 'lesbian' in the strictest sense.
 
Sure, it is fun but there was a great deal to make them hint hint wink wink lesbians. Sure, I do not have a problem. It is just a little weird to have all the female characters to act like they are lesbians and the men are never to be thought of that way.
 
Sure, lots of lesbians in the MU. But out of all of them, who was actually flat-out evil? Kira, surely. But not really beyond that. And MU-Kira liked it every which way, it seems. So not 'lesbian' in the strictest sense.
Watch out for them bisexuals, now -they- are really evil.
 
^ Now wait a minute... :wtf:

I didn't mean to imply that the Intendant was evil because of her 'preference.' She is evil for evil's own sake. The two things don't have to be related. And usually aren't.
 
I agree re the mirror universe - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that we pretty much only saw same-sex attraction in the context of the "evil" characters in the mirror universe. However, someone elsewhere on this site also made the valid point that the mirror characters weren't so much "gay" as they were sexually manipulative... using seduction to get their way. That said - personally, I hate all the mirror episodes anyway - and skip them every time.

Jadzia's relationship in Rejoined, however, felt very authentic and beautiful to me. I appreciated the episode, deeply, though the message is actually more a bisexual perspective (love that surpasses the genders of those doing the loving) than a lesbian perspective (attraction only between women).

(On a side note - it continues to annoy me that the episode introduced a serious social taboo that mysteriously never seemed to exist before or after that episode... pressing "reset" in a high-continuity series like DS9 just doesn't work!...)
 
Sure, it is fun but there was a great deal to make them hint hint wink wink lesbians. Sure, I do not have a problem. It is just a little weird to have all the female characters to act like they are lesbians and the men are never to be thought of that way.

It's not weird. The writers are male and homophobic. I'm sure being good little liberals, they'd object to that, but that doesn't mean they weren't.
 
^ Now wait a minute... :wtf:

I didn't mean to imply that the Intendant was evil because of her 'preference.' She is evil for evil's own sake. The two things don't have to be related. And usually aren't.
Relax, I wasn't implying that you were implying that.

I was just referring to the fact that the Intendant is portrayed as bisexuals are usually portrayed in the media: as an aggressive, promiscuous vixen. The stereotypes surrounding bisexuality are often even worse than the ones surrounding lesbianism.
 
I know I'm kind of new to these boards, having only peeked in a little here and there, but I kind of saw the mirror universe lesbians/bisexuals differently. Being a heterosexual, I may be too willing to pass this off, but this is my take:

The Intendant:
Yes, she was bisexual but she was first and foremost a hedonist. The impression I had of her character was that she was out for her own pleasure at all costs. The sexuality issue was simply a way of demonstrating her broad appetites. (I admit, though, that bisexuality is often portrayed as a lack of self-control rather than a sexual identity, as if bisexuals are simply so promiscuous that they don't mind in whose bed they end up.)

Mirror Ezri:
She came across as a woman who was loyal to her friends. She was faithful to The Intendant until the Intendant betrayed her by killing Mirror Rom and plotting against her. I felt that overall she was portrayed as a positive lesbian, who ultimately did the right thing even though she began the episode as misguided.

---

I would say that, at worst, the Trek writers were furtive with how they dealt with the issue. They trod a very fine line of public acceptance and, like it or not, they were dealing with the fortunes of a show that cost $1.5M per episode, roughly, to produce. In a commercial atmosphere, it must have been very difficult to try to tackle the issues of human sexuality without alienating the sponsors.

Heck, I'd have to say that they were much nicer with the females of the MU than the males. Bashir, Cisco, and Worf were buffoons while the heavy lifting was pretty much handled by O'Brien and to a lesser degree Jennifer. (Dax and Odo were almost peripheral to the cause.) As to why there weren't more male homosexual couplings, I'd have to say that it's probably justified paranoia on the part of the writers. Face it, the audience for Trek is mostly male. Males are more often LESS comfortable with male homosexuality than they are with female homosexuality. So creating lesbian characters would, in all likelihood (as far as the writers were concerned) be more acceptable to their audience.

Again, as a heterosexual I probably give the writers too much credit, but I tended to walk away from the MU episodes simply disliking the Intendant for Visitor's hammy performance rather than any overt sexual overtones.
 
Sure, it is fun but there was a great deal to make them hint hint wink wink lesbians. Sure, I do not have a problem. It is just a little weird to have all the female characters to act like they are lesbians and the men are never to be thought of that way.

It's not weird. The writers are male and homophobic. I'm sure being good little liberals, they'd object to that, but that doesn't mean they weren't.

Have you thought, that the characters that did play Ezri Dax, and others did place their own ideas how to make themselves look like a lesbian. I am a woman, if I ask a male acter to play a gay character, I just do not say "I like to cut hair." So, if you ask for imput, you cannot really say the women that hinted they were lesbian were liberals that are homophobic.
 
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