It was voted off the island.
SPOILERS!!! NEW AICN RUMORS (APRIL 30)
- Thread starter indranee
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It was voted off the island.
Fuck. Khan? Jesus.
I mean, it's not that I haven't enjoyed the character in the past, but I have Jo desire whatsoever to see him again. And the previous two movies (NEM and ST09) spent waaaay too much time sucking off TWoK, and now there's the real possibility that this one will follow suit. And they don't imitate the parts that made that film memorable, such as the rich thematic development, the literate dialog or the strong character-driven story. No, they imitate the superficial stuff, like having a battle in a nebula or the Kobiashi Maru, or the bad guy being freaking Khan. I really wish modern Trek would stop being so worshipful of one thirty-year-old movie.
I mean, it's not that I haven't enjoyed the character in the past, but I have Jo desire whatsoever to see him again. And the previous two movies (NEM and ST09) spent waaaay too much time sucking off TWoK, and now there's the real possibility that this one will follow suit. And they don't imitate the parts that made that film memorable, such as the rich thematic development, the literate dialog or the strong character-driven story. No, they imitate the superficial stuff, like having a battle in a nebula or the Kobiashi Maru, or the bad guy being freaking Khan. I really wish modern Trek would stop being so worshipful of one thirty-year-old movie.
They use Trek's best-know villain again. Big deal. As you've said, we haven't seen him in the last thirty years.
Beyond that, we know nothing.
Well, since Kirk hasn't met Khan yet, Khan can't possibly be WoK version, because he was vengeful against Kirk for dumping them off on a hellhole and forgetting about them
He studied all their manuals back in "Space Seed." The "massive refit" doesn't actually enter into the logic except possibly in some uber-fanboi debate about whether some conduits were supposed to have been moved from deck 50 to deck 74 according to The Compleat TrekFan Continuity Encyclopedia.
We're kind of veering off topic, but it TMP pretty well established that the Enterprise was "almost totally new". And it was shown that Kirk's knowledge of the "new" Enterprise wasn't up to snuff. So its a safe bet that Khan had to do a refresher course to keep from hitting some worthless sections of the ship. Not to mention, unless it was a new thing, the prefix code ideal would have been in the specs can studied.
He had Chekov and Terrell, he had access to the information he needed to pull off the strike.
And angling back to the topic: Checkov, with Khan and Chekov in teh movie together do we get the infamous Chekov scream
I'm jumping int this thread without bothering to read what everyone else has posted.
Anyway, it's cool to hear Nimoy will be back. It'll be interesting to see what Spock Prime has been up to while stuck in the Abramsverse.
Klingons are awesome, I just wish they were the villains of the movie.
And now Khan. I wish I could say I'm surprised. I wish I had a reaction. But everyone for some reason has insisted since before Trek XI was released that Khan had to be in Trek XII and now it's official. On one hand, I do not think of Khan as Star Trek's ultimate villain. I mean yes, he is probably Trek's best villain, but I don't see him as the embodiment of villainy of the Trekverse as the Joker is for Batman. But since every Trek since First Contact has tried to rip-off TWOK in some way (or masturbate to it in XI's case) I guess they might as well bring Khan back and be done with it.
Anyway, it's cool to hear Nimoy will be back. It'll be interesting to see what Spock Prime has been up to while stuck in the Abramsverse.
Klingons are awesome, I just wish they were the villains of the movie.
And now Khan. I wish I could say I'm surprised. I wish I had a reaction. But everyone for some reason has insisted since before Trek XI was released that Khan had to be in Trek XII and now it's official. On one hand, I do not think of Khan as Star Trek's ultimate villain. I mean yes, he is probably Trek's best villain, but I don't see him as the embodiment of villainy of the Trekverse as the Joker is for Batman. But since every Trek since First Contact has tried to rip-off TWOK in some way (or masturbate to it in XI's case) I guess they might as well bring Khan back and be done with it.
If it ends up being Khan (which makes no sense as Benedict is the wrong ethnic group for such a role), then does that mean Trek XIII will be about Kruge, followed by a trip to earth to save the whales?
I mean, they want to bring in new fans and so they end up doing a remake of Wrath of Khan (or, worse, Space Seed). Way to win new fans, Paramount.
All that said, these sorts of rumors tend to be utter B.S. Because I can't see Abrams being that stupid, frankly. If he does this, it'll make him Berman 2.0. So I have to assume this is just a false rumor, and BC will be playing either a new character or, well, someone else. I'm not in favor of them remaking any episodes or villains, but if they have to, surely there are better villains out there than Khan to choose from (I never cared for the guy, myself - though I like Montalban). What about Trelaine? John Gill? Finnegan, even?
Alex
I mean, they want to bring in new fans and so they end up doing a remake of Wrath of Khan (or, worse, Space Seed). Way to win new fans, Paramount.
All that said, these sorts of rumors tend to be utter B.S. Because I can't see Abrams being that stupid, frankly. If he does this, it'll make him Berman 2.0. So I have to assume this is just a false rumor, and BC will be playing either a new character or, well, someone else. I'm not in favor of them remaking any episodes or villains, but if they have to, surely there are better villains out there than Khan to choose from (I never cared for the guy, myself - though I like Montalban). What about Trelaine? John Gill? Finnegan, even?
Alex
It is, since Khan is the only Trek villain that a significant number of non-Trekkies have heard of.
Well, okay - the Borg are kind of out there in pop culture too. I'm sure trekkies would have no complaints about the Borg.
Wrong...not even very observant.
Smart move on Abrams's part.
Well, out of all the villains of the week on TOS, Khan is the most popular and recognizable. He was the one they brought back for a movie, that movie is still considered today by fans to be the best one, the one that constantly gets referanced in every second episode of Family Guy, and even had an episode of Seinfeld centred around it back in the day.
You can't really say the same thing about John Gill.
They got Brent Spiner to play the Drs. Soong, when originally they wanted Chinese-born "...actor Keye Luke (who previously appeared as Donald Cory in TOS: "Whom Gods Destroy") in TNG: "Brothers", but the 86-year-old Luke was either unavailable or unwilling for the part. He died only a few months after the broadcast of the episode..." (Memory Alpha) So there is a precedent for casting against ethnicity, if someone would be looking for a rationalization...
I think it's great. I was hoping it would be Khan. Cumberbatch is an excellent actor, and I think he's going to knock it out of the park. He'll probably act circles around the rest of the cast while doing so, but that's okay.
And who cares if he isn't the right ethnic type? The original actor wasn't, either. You cast who you feel is the best actor for the role; whether or not they look the part isn't as important.
And who cares if he isn't the right ethnic type? The original actor wasn't, either. You cast who you feel is the best actor for the role; whether or not they look the part isn't as important.
I don't think that was the case at the time. Mudd was probably more recognizable because of the number of appearances. Star Trek wasn't really the kind of show that had this type of famous villain until the movies.
Times were a lot different then. There weren't as many ethnic actors that were easily accessible. It was easier to accept then than it is now when there are many actors available who more fit the role. Plus, it wasn't a huge contrast because he at least wasn't pasty.
It would be like if they cast Sulu as a white guy. Yeah, it probably doesn't really matter if they would have, but it seems off to do so.
I suspected at the time that Bennett's decision to resurrect Khan was a confluence of a couple of things.
One was that he liked "Space Seed" when he watched it, as he reported.
The second would have been that Montalban was the nearest thing to a big name that a low-budget Trek movie could afford - a bona fide movie star of a generation past - who had a high profile on TV at that time because of the big success of Fantasy Island.
Bennett was canny enough to be intrigued by the synchronicity of Khan's suitability as a villain and Montalban's desirability as a draw, I think.
One was that he liked "Space Seed" when he watched it, as he reported.
The second would have been that Montalban was the nearest thing to a big name that a low-budget Trek movie could afford - a bona fide movie star of a generation past - who had a high profile on TV at that time because of the big success of Fantasy Island.
Bennett was canny enough to be intrigued by the synchronicity of Khan's suitability as a villain and Montalban's desirability as a draw, I think.
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Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic. I'll get excited when we start seeing trailers and clips. This way, I keep it all on a slow burn and don't get too impatient. 
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