Is Generations REALLY That Bad???

[CaptainMatt]

I agree the Enterprise-E never felt like the "home" past Enterprises were, not including the Scott Bakula version which came later in the real world.


As George Takei once said, "the Enterprise is the real star of Star Trek," referring to the ships seen in the classic run of feature films.

 

[Balrog]

^It doesn't make sense NOT to compare GEN to the other films in the franchise.

Now, if you are saying it is compared to the other films unfairly, Par, I would like to hear your reasons why you think that.

No, I definitely don't think it is being compared unfairly. I think it is a GOOD film, but sometimes people say it is "bad" because it does not measure up to most of the others. It can still be a "good" film, and be one of the "worst" in the franchise at the same time.

I understand what you are saying there. I agree.

 

[Hober Mallow]

What a difference a decade makes. When the original Enterprise was destroyed in TSFS, it was shocking. When 1701-D was destroyed in GEN, it had no emotional impact at all, because we all knew there would be a 1701-E in the next film and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

Not only that, but the destruction of the D didn't seem to have any emotional impact on the crew, either. "Okay, Numer One, I've gathered up my books, now let's get off this pile of scrap."

 

[SchwEnt]

does the Ent-A being in TFF and TUC hurt those films?(leaving aside whatever unrelated issues you may have about TFF)

No, because it was the same ship with a letter painted on it. Otherwise, it was still "our" Enterprise.

Also, in some ways, Kirk and Co. kind of earned the Enterprise back. The ship was given its own "hero introduction" at the end of TVH. Sort of like seeing Spock alive again at the end of TSFS.

The E-E just sort of showed up with our heroes already on it with the introduction less impressive.

Right on. In TVH, it was still a novelty to see *another* starship Enterprise, 1701-A. It was still special.

With the premiere of TNG with the 1701-D, it became clear that multiple starships Enterprise exist and will continue to exist. By the time 1701-E comes around, it's not such a big deal at all anymore, which kinda sucks.

 

[CaptainMatt]

No, because it was the same ship with a letter painted on it. Otherwise, it was still "our" Enterprise.

Also, in some ways, Kirk and Co. kind of earned the Enterprise back. The ship was given its own "hero introduction" at the end of TVH. Sort of like seeing Spock alive again at the end of TSFS.

The E-E just sort of showed up with our heroes already on it with the introduction less impressive.

Right on. In TVH, it was still a novelty to see *another* starship Enterprise, 1701-A. It was still special.

With the premiere of TNG with the 1701-D, it became clear that multiple starships Enterprise exist and will continue to exist. By the time 1701-E comes around, it's not such a big deal at all anymore, which kinda sucks.

I agree. I was more impressed with Picard's link to the Borg than the Ent-E as a ship. It is definitely NOT what I was expecting after Ent-D crashed on Veridian III.

 

[Captrek]

No, because it was the same ship with a letter painted on it. Otherwise, it was still "our" Enterprise.

Also, in some ways, Kirk and Co. kind of earned the Enterprise back. The ship was given its own "hero introduction" at the end of TVH. Sort of like seeing Spock alive again at the end of TSFS.

The E-E just sort of showed up with our heroes already on it with the introduction less impressive.

Right on. In TVH, it was still a novelty to see *another* starship Enterprise, 1701-A. It was still special.

With the premiere of TNG with the 1701-D, it became clear that multiple starships Enterprise exist and will continue to exist. By the time 1701-E comes around, it's not such a big deal at all anymore, which kinda sucks.

I imagine that for those who came into the franchise through TNG, it must be difficult to understand how shocking it was for the previous generation to be confronted with the destruction of the Enterprise. It wasn't the first Enterprise — It was the Enterprise.

 

[BrownShatner]

does the Ent-A being in TFF and TUC hurt those films?(leaving aside whatever unrelated issues you may have about TFF)

I always thought the Enterprise A was a kinda lame "reset button" that took a lot of the emotion out of the scene where Kirk blew up the original. In the end it didn't really affect the films much, but it would have made more sense to go with the Excelsior design than alter the model to say 1701-A and pretend nothing had happened.

 

[sonak]

does the Ent-A being in TFF and TUC hurt those films?(leaving aside whatever unrelated issues you may have about TFF)

I always thought the Enterprise A was a kinda lame "reset button" that took a lot of the emotion out of the scene where Kirk blew up the original. In the end it didn't really affect the films much, but it would have made more sense to go with the Excelsior design than alter the model to say 1701-A and pretend nothing had happened.

agreed

 

[Agonizer]

I agree with those of you who say Generations felt like an extended TV episode. However, I like it because it does feel like the show. Picard wasn't a full blown action hero yet and Data's best friend was still Geordi. Even though First Contact was my favorite the TNG movies, it is where the Picard-Data show took over and everyone else was pushed into the background for the most part.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

I agree. I was more impressed with Picard's link to the Borg than the Ent-E as a ship. It is definitely NOT what I was expecting after Ent-D crashed on Veridian III.

Which was a shame for me because I think the Ent-E is the best looking ship in all of Trek....

The designers did a good job even if the writers didn't give her the proper introduction (or even send off...later on) she deserved.

 

[Anji]

Hollowed out, almost transparent characters; slow direction; a plot that was held together by dental floss and a cast that just didn't have their hearts in it.

Oh, yeah, it was bad.

 

[sonak]

Hollowed out, almost transparent characters; slow direction; a plot that was held together by dental floss and a cast that just didn't have their hearts in it.

Oh, yeah, it was bad.

what does "hollowed-out, almost transparent characters" even mean?

 

[CaptainMatt]

Beats me.

 

[Grant]

I can't stand Generations but 'hollowed-out transparent...'

So in the two weeks between the end of filming of the series and the start-up of the movie the characters became hollowed-out!

It was the plot devices, logic errors that hurt the movie not the characters changing in any way.

 

[plynch]

Picard sobs, which is out of charcter (thus, human), and not hollow. Or out.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Picard sobs, which is out of charcter (thus, human), and not hollow. Or out.

The sobbing doesn't bother me, but it would have been better torward the end of the film, like going into the final act.

As bad as Generations is, it could have been must worse had they gone with the Maurice Hurley script about the Enterprise D in crisis forcing Picard to go to the Holodeck to ask a holographic Kirk for advice.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^I'm pretty sure that was the first version of the eighth Trek film (which was ditched in favour of First Contact), as a way of having Shatner in there even after Kirk died in the previous film.

 

[Captrek]

The sobbing scene feels like it was shoehorned into the movie to showcase Patrick Stewart’s ability to pull it off, and as a result it pulls me out of the movie. The performance impresses me, but it doesn’t connect me to what Picard is going through.

Contrast it with Kirk’s sad contemplation of a son who hates him and a “life that could have been.” It’s not an actor’s scene, it’s not likely to make you stand up and declare, “Wow, what a tour de force performance by Shatner!” but it’s a much more affecting scene, because it’s all about Kirk, and the sobbing scene is all about Stewart.

 

[Harvey]

^I'm pretty sure that was the first version of the eighth Trek film (which was ditched in favour of First Contact), as a way of having Shatner in there even after Kirk died in the previous film.

I've read that Hurley wrote that as an alternative to Star Trek: Generations in a few books, including this one, but the script has never been found online.

 

[SchwEnt]

Sounds like Hurley's "going to the holodeck to seek the advice of previous famous Enterprise crew" idea was kept around till used in TATV. Wonderful.