Is Generations REALLY That Bad???

[Captrek]

I suspect they crashed-landed the Enterprise only to cover up how weak the the rest of the drama was. But even in that scene, the crappy CGI does not hold up.

They crash-landed the Enterprise to dismiss the TV Enterprise and make room for a new big-screen Enterprise.

What a difference a decade makes. When the original Enterprise was destroyed in TSFS, it was shocking. When 1701-D was destroyed in GEN, it had no emotional impact at all, because we all knew there would be a 1701-E in the next film and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

 

[Prologic9]

-Why can't Sybok buy a ship to go to the Great Barrier?
-how does the USS Reliant confuse two different planets? Why can't Khan figure out such a dumb code?
-how can an advanced probe not figure out it's transmissions are harmful?
Why doesn't the borg cube time travel first, when it's back in the DQ, THEN travel to Earth? How can they sudden;y beam onto Federation ships without being detected?

see what I mean? Are those "plot killers?"

Non of these are plot holes;

• Maybe Sybok.. is poor? If it's easily explainable, then the film doesn't need to explain it.
• TWOK explaines the planetary confusion in the movie, the planet shifted orbit. They thought it was the other planet because it was where the other planet should have been. (I think the other planet exploded or something?)
• We don't know anything about the probe, it's capabilities, or intentions. That was kind of the point.
• The Borg don't travel back in time because their goal is to assimilate technology and knowledge to add to their collective, all of which is destroyed if they wipe out centuries of progress. All they got out of the First Contact scenario is eliminating the federation as a threat. It's easy to see why that isn't their primary course of action.

the irony of that response is that you don't see that all you did was rationalize/explain away plot holes.... which of course, you could also do for Generations if you were so inclined. My point wasn't to dwell on the various plot holes of those other movies, but rather to say that all the Trek movies have them to some degree.

(the planetary confusion thing is still weak. They should notice that a whole planet is missing, and the odds of one planet shifting into almost the exact same orbit as another by chance are incredibly tiny. But TWOK is a good film so this is easily overlooked.)

But I didn't explain them away, the films and characters within did. That's why they aren't plot holes.

Generations' plot holes are fairly ridiculous, and I'd probably attribute them to a rushed script. But personally I agree with the OP 100%.

 

[sonak]

Non of these are plot holes;

• Maybe Sybok.. is poor? If it's easily explainable, then the film doesn't need to explain it.
• TWOK explaines the planetary confusion in the movie, the planet shifted orbit. They thought it was the other planet because it was where the other planet should have been. (I think the other planet exploded or something?)
• We don't know anything about the probe, it's capabilities, or intentions. That was kind of the point.
• The Borg don't travel back in time because their goal is to assimilate technology and knowledge to add to their collective, all of which is destroyed if they wipe out centuries of progress. All they got out of the First Contact scenario is eliminating the federation as a threat. It's easy to see why that isn't their primary course of action.

the irony of that response is that you don't see that all you did was rationalize/explain away plot holes.... which of course, you could also do for Generations if you were so inclined. My point wasn't to dwell on the various plot holes of those other movies, but rather to say that all the Trek movies have them to some degree.

(the planetary confusion thing is still weak. They should notice that a whole planet is missing, and the odds of one planet shifting into almost the exact same orbit as another by chance are incredibly tiny. But TWOK is a good film so this is easily overlooked.)

But I didn't explain them away, the films and characters within did. That's why they aren't plot holes.

Generations' plot holes are fairly ridiculous, and I'd probably attribute them to a rushed script. But personally I agree with the OP 100%.

by that logic, the plot holes in Generations aren't plot holes, either, since explanations are offered for all of them. You're just refusing to admit that it's a matter of taste and whether or not you like the film.

The only thing unexplained is the nature and mechanism of the Nexus itself, which does tend toward fantasy, but as I mentioned, there are other elements in Trek that occasionally tend toward that as well.

 

[Captrek]

One of the big disappointments of the film is how the Nexus is nothing it is built up to be.

This is how it’s built up by Guinan:

It was like being inside joy. As if joy was something tangible, and you could wrap yourself in it like a blanket. And never in my entire life have I been as content. [...] I would have done anything, anything to get back there. But once I realized that wasn't possible I learned to live without that. [...] If you go, you're not going to care about anything. Not this ship, Soran, nothing. All you'll want is to stay in the Nexus. And you're not going to want to come back.

None of that turns out to be true at all. The Nexus turns out to be a cross between a holosuite and the Shore Leave planet. Picard and Kirk very quickly grow bored of it, and Soran’s obsession makes no sense.

 

[Grant]

^^^^So true.

She makes it to be this irresistable thing that she and Soran yearn for and then Picard is enthralled for 4 minutes and then a blinky light makes him snap out of it.

Maybe when you first arrive it feels great but in a few seconds then it gets boring, but Guinan and Soran weren't in long enough to realize that. Which means it's really 'hell' where you are stuck doing seemingly happy but ultimately boring things-like that episode of Twilight Zone. Except of course, Twilight Zone makes that clear because they had a full 23 minutes to explain it and Generations only had 119.

Simply put, it was a terrible plot device to hook up Picard and Kirk for what turned out to be a lame action sequence---period.
They'd have been better off remaking Yesterday's Enterprise with Kirk and co. taking Ent-A to a museum and diverting to save the Klingons from a treacherous Romulan attack. Instead of a boring retirement they all go out in a blaze of glory saving the Federation one last time. Repetative-yes- better than Generations YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Picard and Kirk good.
Soran bad.

 

[sonak]

One of the big disappointments of the film is how the Nexus is nothing it is built up to be.

This is how it’s built up by Guinan:

It was like being inside joy. As if joy was something tangible, and you could wrap yourself in it like a blanket. And never in my entire life have I been as content. [...] I would have done anything, anything to get back there. But once I realized that wasn't possible I learned to live without that. [...] If you go, you're not going to care about anything. Not this ship, Soran, nothing. All you'll want is to stay in the Nexus. And you're not going to want to come back.

None of that turns out to be true at all. The Nexus turns out to be a cross between a holosuite and the Shore Leave planet. Picard and Kirk very quickly grow bored of it, and Soran’s obsession makes no sense.

I do agree with this. It comes off very much as just a more elaborate holodeck. The way they portray it, you get to thinking, "why did Soran waste eighty years trying to get back to the Nexus? Just get rich off of your genius, then buy your own holodeck/holosuite, and spend your remaining days there."

 

[Jeyl]

I also find it insulting that the money spenders used the budget to give the cast and extras brand new, old style sailor uniforms for Worf's promotion, and not creating new DS9/VOY outfits that they would be wearing for the rest of the movie.

 

[Captrek]

^^^^So true.

She makes it to be this irresistable thing that she and Soran yearn for and then Picard is enthralled for 4 minutes and then a blinky light makes him snap out of it.

Maybe when you first arrive it feels great but in a few seconds then it gets boring, but Guinan and Soran weren't in long enough to realize that. Which means it's really 'hell' where you are stuck doing seemingly happy but ultimately boring things-like that episode of Twilight Zone. Except of course, Twilight Zone makes that clear because they had a full 23 minutes to explain it and Generations only had 119.

The film doesn't even acknowledge the discrepancy. It's as if the treasure hunters in Raiders of the Lost Ark found an ordinary metal box with minimal historical significance and no magic powers, and nobody in the film seemed to remember they had been looking for something far greater.

If the Nexus is something less than what Soran was expecting, it makes no sense for Picard to approach Kirk with the proposal to go back to Veridian and kill Soran. It would have been far simpler to approach Soran and work something out with him.

(Incidentally, this has a similar flaw to INS in that Picard condemns the villain to death for no good reason. He could have warned Soran that he had sabotaged the launcher and it was about to explode, but I guess that wouldn't have been as satisfying as watching him cluelessly walk into the death trap. And this after Soran had repeatedly spared Picard's life. Sheesh.)

Simply put, it was a terrible plot device to hook up Picard and Kirk for what turned out to be a lame action sequence---period.

Exactly.

 

[JRS]

I dont think that Generations is a bad movie, it just that some of the bad choices by the writers and producers drag it down.

Good Stuff

- Some nice shots of Enterprise-D.
- I generally enjoyed the scenes between Kirk and Picard, its fun to watch them work together.
- Some nice references to events of the past episodes, like the Farpoint mission and ofcourse Datas emotion chip.
- Closest to the feel of the TNG series itself.
- Soran and The Duras sisters
- Music is pretty good in this one.

Bad Stuff

- The destruction of the Ent-D by the old Klingon BoP is simply stupid. Only one shot from the phasers?!?!
We saw in the series, that the Federation flagship has quite good firepower, with shields or no shields. Would have been better if the Duras sisters would have had a Battlecruiser at least, plus couple of BoPs as back-up.
- Picard crying.
Yes, he was upset naturally..but I somehow feel that it could have been let to happen off screen.
- The death of Picards family members does not really affect the movie much..and I found it odd that Picard does not even think of going back in time to try to rescue them from the fire that killed them. And going back to beat up Soran so late before the launch is bit silly also.
- Budget frames are bit too visible in this one.
Using shot(s) from previous film was bit annoying.

 

[Ranger3]

I suspect they crashed-landed the Enterprise only to cover up how weak the the rest of the drama was. But even in that scene, the crappy CGI does not hold up.

They crash-landed the Enterprise to dismiss the TV Enterprise and make room for a new big-screen Enterprise.

What a difference a decade makes. When the original Enterprise was destroyed in TSFS, it was shocking. When 1701-D was destroyed in GEN, it had no emotional impact at all, because we all knew there would be a 1701-E in the next film and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

I remember when one of the trailers showed the Enterprise-D's stardrive section blowing up. I suddenly thought back to Star Trek III and then shook my head thinking...

"History repeats itself again!"

Ten years after TSFS, the writers of Generations had to go that un-imaginative route, just so that First Contact would introduce the Enterprise-E.

How lame could Rick Berman, Brannon Braga, and Ronald D. Moore get?

 

[Gojira]

I suspect they crashed-landed the Enterprise only to cover up how weak the the rest of the drama was. But even in that scene, the crappy CGI does not hold up.

They crash-landed the Enterprise to dismiss the TV Enterprise and make room for a new big-screen Enterprise.

What a difference a decade makes. When the original Enterprise was destroyed in TSFS, it was shocking. When 1701-D was destroyed in GEN, it had no emotional impact at all, because we all knew there would be a 1701-E in the next film and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

I remember when one of the trailers showed the Enterprise-D's stardrive section blowing up. I suddenly thought back to Star Trek III and then shook my head thinking...

"History repeats itself again!"

Ten years after TSFS, the writers of Generations had to go that un-imaginative route, just so that First Contact would introduce the Enterprise-E.

How lame could Rick Berman, Brannon Braga, and Ronald D. Moore get?

From what I have read they didn't blow up the Enterprise D just to make room for the Enterprise E they had a practical motive. They found that the Enterprise D didn't photograph well on the large screen and didn't look good so they needed a design that would look better shot from different angles.

 

[CaptainMatt]

Generations has it's problems, but it is still better a sit-down experience overall than, say, Insurrection or Nemesis. And this is from someone who has seen all three on repeated viewings. So I am not just repeating what others have said. In truth all the films have something good or bad in them on differing levels, and any fan should be willing to ignore the bad if they really want to sit through the experience of one of these movies.

 

[Captrek]

They crash-landed the Enterprise to dismiss the TV Enterprise and make room for a new big-screen Enterprise.

What a difference a decade makes. When the original Enterprise was destroyed in TSFS, it was shocking. When 1701-D was destroyed in GEN, it had no emotional impact at all, because we all knew there would be a 1701-E in the next film and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

I remember when one of the trailers showed the Enterprise-D's stardrive section blowing up. I suddenly thought back to Star Trek III and then shook my head thinking...

"History repeats itself again!"

Ten years after TSFS, the writers of Generations had to go that un-imaginative route, just so that First Contact would introduce the Enterprise-E.

How lame could Rick Berman, Brannon Braga, and Ronald D. Moore get?

From what I have read they didn't blow up the Enterprise D just to make room for the Enterprise E they had a practical motive. They found that the Enterprise D didn't photograph well on the large screen and didn't look good so they needed a design that would look better shot from different angles.

...so they blew up the 1701-D to clear the way to replace it with one that would photograph well on the large screen.

 

[CaptainMatt]

It was shocking to see the Enterprise-D get blown up when I first saw the film in December 1994. I did not know anything about the behind the scene reasons for destroying the ship or anything about a new one for future films. I kind of figured when Picard went back in time upon leaving the Nexus that it would have negated the destruction of the D. Oh well...

 

[Captrek]

It was obvious by the time the TNG films came around that Enterprises were now disposable products. The -D in the registry was a constant reminder of that, leading to Picard's "plenty of letters left in the alphabet" line in FC.

 

[CaptainMatt]

It was starting to get ridiculous by that point, yes.

 

[horatio83]

From what I have read they didn't blow up the Enterprise D just to make room for the Enterprise E they had a practical motive. They found that the Enterprise D didn't photograph well on the large screen and didn't look good so they needed a design that would look better shot from different angles.

Precisely. The attempts to compensate for this via high-contrast lighting with lots of shadows didn't really do the trick.

 

[sonak]

^^^^So true.

She makes it to be this irresistable thing that she and Soran yearn for and then Picard is enthralled for 4 minutes and then a blinky light makes him snap out of it.

Maybe when you first arrive it feels great but in a few seconds then it gets boring, but Guinan and Soran weren't in long enough to realize that. Which means it's really 'hell' where you are stuck doing seemingly happy but ultimately boring things-like that episode of Twilight Zone. Except of course, Twilight Zone makes that clear because they had a full 23 minutes to explain it and Generations only had 119.

The film doesn't even acknowledge the discrepancy. It's as if the treasure hunters in Raiders of the Lost Ark found an ordinary metal box with minimal historical significance and no magic powers, and nobody in the film seemed to remember they had been looking for something far greater.

If the Nexus is something less than what Soran was expecting, it makes no sense for Picard to approach Kirk with the proposal to go back to Veridian and kill Soran. It would have been far simpler to approach Soran and work something out with him.

(Incidentally, this has a similar flaw to INS in that Picard condemns the villain to death for no good reason. He could have warned Soran that he had sabotaged the launcher and it was about to explode, but I guess that wouldn't have been as satisfying as watching him cluelessly walk into the death trap. And this after Soran had repeatedly spared Picard's life. Sheesh.)

Simply put, it was a terrible plot device to hook up Picard and Kirk for what turned out to be a lame action sequence---period.

Exactly.

Well, we don't know that Soran was disappointed, though. Maybe a big floating holodeck that he never had to turn off or leave was exactly what he was looking for.

 

[Captrek]

Couldn't have hurt to ask.